Ep. 25: Embracing Authenticity with Ian Pettigrew 

 

Unedited podcast transcription with Ian Pettigrew

00:00.72
katrinamcollier
Ian Pettigrew welcome to Beyond The Damage of Words podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you today.

00:06.22
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, thank you very at her. Thank you very much for having me. It’s an absolute pleasure to to be on but also just to get to hang out with you and and I’m really good. Thank you I’m really good. What about you.

00:14.40
katrinamcollier
Oh no, It’s been too long I learned that statement from you didn’t I That’s why you laughed How are you today? So um, there’s There’s no preamble here as you know I just launched straight in. So What led you into working on yourself. And just deciding to make a change.

00:32.80
Ian Pettigrew
And I I think it goes back quite a long time. It’s just wanting things to be different and um, kind of I am very ambitious, not in terms of money or fame or all sorts of things. But.

00:43.71
katrinamcollier
Ah.

00:47.00
Ian Pettigrew
I’m really fiercely ambitious in terms of the positive impact they want to make on the world and I just knew that a few years ago and I wasn’t equipped to do that. You know I wasn’t in the the position that I wanted to do that. So I’m kind of really intentional about knowing what it is I want.

00:55.41
katrinamcollier
M.

01:03.37
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

01:04.75
Ian Pettigrew
And doing what I need to do to get that and doing the work on myself was very very much part of that journey.

01:08.71
katrinamcollier
When you say a few years is that before be meeting you or after because I’m thinking when did we go to camppala the first time 2050 and sixteen

01:19.80
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, so well I I think for me, it’s been an ongoing journey. So I’ve I’ve been knocking around for a while. So I I started work in um, first proper job post Uni was 1988

01:23.91
katrinamcollier
I.

01:34.90
Ian Pettigrew
And sort of first few years corporate life I really struggled with my confidence you know I was um, quiet I was shy I would overthink a lot of things I would be very reluctant to sort of stand up and present and so there’s just been I think layers and layers of.

01:34.79
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

01:47.94
katrinamcollier
And.

01:53.29
Ian Pettigrew
Working on that and working on sort of what happened dearham a corporate courier and then I left in two thousand the nine to set up on my own and then and then there’s a whole levels and layers of sort of things I’ve been working on since then so when you say when was that? Ah, ah.

01:59.77
katrinamcollier
Um, because cope. Yeah.

02:06.77
katrinamcollier
Ah, so what was that so pre preus meeting because I mean corporate world can be quite soul destroyying kant. Ah, if you mut take you, you are shy and you’re not and they just it seemed they just seem to make it worse I can’t.

02:11.15
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, say the last 35 years

02:26.70
katrinamcollier
Like what was it about that experience that I mean one led you to leave that would be quite interesting because you left and started on your own.

02:30.16
Ian Pettigrew
At what? yeah well there was nothing really wrong that that led me to leave it just wasn’t enough so I was change director in a pharmaceutical company leading large scale organizational change.

02:40.30
katrinamcollier
Ah, oh interesting.

02:48.58
Ian Pettigrew
Really enjoyed a lot of my work and you know that there was a lot to like but I wanted more of a portfolio career and I don’t this is going to sound really arrogant. But I just don’t like working for somebody else I’d rather be in control of my own destiny.

02:48.62
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, open.

02:58.12
katrinamcollier
Yep.

03:04.33
katrinamcollier
Like I’m unemployable. No I love being unemployable Unemploable is the only oh I Love it I Love it? Yeah yeah.

03:04.72
Ian Pettigrew
I’m I’m probably absolutely unemployable now you know I can’t even comprehend. Yeah I can’t imagine the thought of actually having a job and so it it was more a yeah, absolutely we we did start the club and so it wasn’t sort of there was nothing wrong. It was just that. Wasn’t able to do what I wanted and do everything that I wanted and I’d ah been to um Charles handy the old sort of management professor I’d heard him speak in person at Birmingham and he talked about portfolio careers about having a mix of things you do that.

03:28.40
katrinamcollier
Ah.

03:33.60
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, um, yeah.

03:40.63
Ian Pettigrew
Give you different things and you can turn the dial up and down over time and I just remember sitting you know and listening thinking. Yeah, that’s what I want and so so leaving corporate was part of that.

03:48.11
katrinamcollier
Yeah, isn’t it different too. It’s so different to when we started out so I mean you basically started in the copck world right? Zas leaving school that I mucked around in union then got job but it’s it’s it’s that well but was similar age group similar enough.

03:59.90
Ian Pettigrew
So thank you? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:06.27
katrinamcollier
It was like a job for life Still, you know I still have my parents telling me that and you’re just like I mean yeah, being able to say I don’t know where my next bit of income is or what my next flight will be or what are we doing would shock them so much. But it’s like that’s how it is and it’s great fun. But it means you get to do work that really lifts you up to you doesn’t it changes. The.

04:21.22
Ian Pettigrew
Absolutely and you you know that I’m just in the process of reducing my working hours a little bit to 1 have more time to chill out overall but also to free up time for the academic research and the book and I just love the fact that.

04:25.29
katrinamcollier
Yeah, so.

04:34.88
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

04:39.99
Ian Pettigrew
I don’t have to consult with anybody. It’s not a major thing. It’s just a constant evolution of turning the dials up and down of the mix of things that I do in that portfolio. So I attach a lot of value value to that freedom.

04:41.94
katrinamcollier
Um.

04:47.80
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

04:53.50
katrinamcollier
Yeah, but I also felt like you were probably burning out. You were doing ah a lot weren’t you I mean you were working a lot of days so actually to see that update where you’ve clearly gone I can’t do that.

04:54.44
Ian Pettigrew
Um, the autonomy that I’ve got to be able to do that kind of it. It is I do feel like I’ve got the best job in the world.

05:10.97
katrinamcollier
Do this I need to slow down was actually bring it to see.

05:12.27
Ian Pettigrew
What thank you and it’s like you and I thoroughly enjoy what I do you know I really I ah do feel and it’s going to sound a bit hippye for me I do feel a strong sentence of calling to the work and and thoroughly enjoy it and.

05:21.64
katrinamcollier
Um.

05:26.66
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

05:31.65
Ian Pettigrew
I Do you know I will always be teetering I’m working too hard um and straying into that So and the other thing is that you know I’ve had a few um you know, managed to.

05:36.99
katrinamcollier
Ah.

05:43.53
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, break my ankle in all 3 places break every bone in it. Try maeola fracture. You know there’s there’s a few things I’ve had and it’s like after that really prioritize my fitness and one of the things that I prioritize is fitness sleep nutrition and you know not not the whole thing and.

05:44.54
katrinamcollier
I.

05:56.21
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, sleep.

06:02.95
Ian Pettigrew
I Can’t out of also still committed to this ridiculous endurine cycling challenge that I’m still trading towards and it’s not just about putting the work in on training. It’s about putting the work in on recovery and so yeah, so it’s just been about turning the dial down a bit.

06:07.15
katrinamcollier
Um.

06:11.54
katrinamcollier
No yeah I felt I felt like the universe is going felt like the universe was going Well, you’re not listening in. We’re just going to really slow you down here that because you were doing a lot were you at that point as well. So going, Let’s go back to.

06:29.30
Ian Pettigrew
Um, yeah.

06:31.36
katrinamcollier
So When did you I mean have you actively worked on yourself. Obviously I know that you’re a coach now so that you had to have worked on yourself but did you seek a professional. Did you start reading? What did you do that started you changing because you didn’t like where you were At. Think I’m making sense at this point.

06:50.28
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, but Alan so what I’ll answer what to think you asked and so I but I’d say it’s sort of probably I feel like a blundered a bit through for the first few years and then probably kind of I don’t know. Um.

06:52.82
katrinamcollier
Ah, yeah, I’m not sure what I asked. Ah.

07:00.68
katrinamcollier
Oh.

07:06.70
katrinamcollier
And.

07:06.39
Ian Pettigrew
And about 2000 something like that really started to look for answers. You know, think about yeah I’m sure I’ve got more I can do and I’m sure I’m getting in my own way and started reading voraciously consuming things and worked with some coaches and had some coaching as well.

07:16.46
katrinamcollier
Aha. Yes.

07:21.39
katrinamcollier
Ah.

07:26.11
Ian Pettigrew
Um, and then trained as a coach that while I was at Astrazeneca and started to use that as part of my job and then I’ve always found that um my coaching training has always been really valuable because the way you teach coaching is you have people practice on each other.

07:30.37
katrinamcollier
Ah, yeah.

07:41.50
katrinamcollier
Ah.

07:45.28
Ian Pettigrew
So there’s always been a massive formational element so in the early days I’m a coach training and then again one are trained with Gallup and as a certified strengths coach and then the advanced coaching and then I’ve been doing my masters in.

07:45.76
katrinamcollier
Yeah, um.

07:52.10
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

08:01.82
Ian Pettigrew
Applied positive psychology and coaching psychology and and again for all of that training. There’s a massive formational um element. So yeah, so it’s been reading my own research and then the practicing on each other as well has been always much more.

08:05.87
katrinamcollier
Ah.

08:11.12
katrinamcollier
So you practice you’re being practiced on. Yeah.

08:19.82
Ian Pettigrew
But we’ve got much more out of that than I ever expected it would and I always am sort of constantly surprised by that and then.

08:25.63
katrinamcollier
Was there was there 1 particular one that you’re happy to share where you went. Oh my gosh like it was just a particular session where like a light bulb went off you mentioned getting out of your own way was it something can you can you remember 1 just.

08:39.48
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, so I I think there’s there’s a few things I think one is strength based work and you know because often we all get caught awkward in this deficit discourse. You know we focus on what’s wrong rather than what’s right.

08:49.61
katrinamcollier
Ah.

08:52.41
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

08:56.50
Ian Pettigrew
And and there’s a famous research paper barrmaister that says bad is stronger than good. You know we like we often focus on the bad and ignore the good and um, one of the beliefs is that you know that’s because and you know you go about thousands of years bad was life threatening. You know you had to pay attention to the bad.

09:02.98
katrinamcollier
Um, ah yeah.

09:12.84
katrinamcollier
Um, yes, true.

09:16.20
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, otherwise you wouldn’t survive and you could get away without a focus on the good so we could end up in that deficit discourse and when I first started to do work on strengths and the entire focus is on what’s right with you and you are enough um be more you and that was when.

09:27.00
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

09:35.66
Ian Pettigrew
Looking at my own strengths and working on them and the more I’ve worked with other people. It’s kind of like yet. You know what I’ve got everything you need and some of the things that I regarded as weaknesses were were absolutely and it.

09:38.40
katrinamcollier
So.

09:43.59
katrinamcollier
So there’s a shift in energy isn’t there when you when you suddenly go I’ve got what I need I’ve like you go from? oh I should have all these say oh hang on I’ve got these these are amazing. Yeah.

09:54.21
Ian Pettigrew
Well and and that’s a real and that’s one of my kind of greatest privileges in the work that I get to do which is that it is amazing to really be able to hold a mirror up to somebody help them focus on what’s right with them.

09:59.72
katrinamcollier
Oh yeah, oh.

10:14.40
Ian Pettigrew
And then help them to just have that realization that they are enough. You know it’s an amazing powerful place to be.

10:19.50
katrinamcollier
Yeah I I wrote um I wrote in because you you have a chapter in my memoir I think you know that but I don’t know that I’ve shared it all with you. But I wrote about because it was interesting Actually the the strengths that I have are totally because of my childhood as well and it’s like the benefit.

10:34.30
Ian Pettigrew
Um, yeah.

10:36.51
katrinamcollier
Of my childhood is that I have these incredible strengths over here and then even I can’t remember what my weak. My weakest weakest one was my not so strong strong. But even that was a clear direct result as well. It was actually just so easy to be able to see that um, but then but playing to my strengths.

10:49.99
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, absolutely yeah, you can see where they came from. Yeah.

10:53.00
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and but also just like that understanding isn’t it I don’t want to do something that’s because it’s over there in that one and not in my strengths and then so discard that do this? Yeah, it’s kind of fun. Um, yeah.

11:01.55
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, absolutely so that so that was a real moment for me and I can start you know and I still and that influences me every single day and then the other thing was when I’ve done work and training around cognitive behavioral coaching which is to dive into the power of the stories that we tell ourselves.

11:12.53
katrinamcollier
Are.

11:18.76
Ian Pettigrew
And you know I remember and unearthing some things about where I get in my in my own way and about situations where I might where I might in the past have felt intimidated by certain people and so to to be able to do the work on that is really powerful and.

11:26.70
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

11:36.95
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, it’s amazing with the sorry I’m interrupting you know.

11:37.55
Ian Pettigrew
It’s ongoing. It’s kind of you know I and I that sorry that can I just finish that point there’s there’s a real sorry. There’s a real that that that was a thought that there’s a real duality because in one way I am really happy with who I am you know I.

11:51.25
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:54.96
Ian Pettigrew
I’m really content I Really like who I am I’m really proud of what have I of what have achieved and I’m really kind of yeah I’m proud of the work that I do and so I’m really content but at the same time I can always see more potential a more upside and so there’s this kind of duality this tension of.

12:07.96
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

12:13.34
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, you know what? really really happy and content and this yeah but actually do you know what could be more so I’d very much describe myself as work in progress on the development fronts. They’ll continue in the journey but at the same time actually very happy.

12:23.90
katrinamcollier
It is that yeah which is I’m continuing to do more and I’m very happy but does that come because it’s almost like the way I Wonder if this is a story you’re telling yourself that it almost sounds like you’re coming from lack like oh I need more any more but that’s not.

12:31.00
Ian Pettigrew
Um, yeah.

12:42.60
Ian Pettigrew
Yes.

12:42.17
katrinamcollier
Unk re wanting to Contribute. You’re wanting to serve and you’re wanting to help other people more from your place of Happiness. So I say it quite I mean I feel the same but I Also think it’s that it’s ah it’s such a funny thing because ah, just Happy. I Guess it’s the network of friends that I have you know you see all these awful things about oh you should be retiring soon and we’re all like I’m sorry what like what I’ve got friends in the mid 60 s like what I don’t want to retirre I’m still I’ve still got so much to give and I think it’s that we we get to do that through our work So we’re very lucky that we keep to.

13:02.95
Ian Pettigrew
Um, yeah.

13:13.64
katrinamcollier
To play it forward now forgot what my question was going to be never mind. It’s kind add but it doesn’t matter. Yes.

13:14.57
Ian Pettigrew
Get can I can I say fortunate instead of lucky good good because you and I have both worked really hard for what we’ve got so I tend not to use the word lucky in that context.

13:22.66
katrinamcollier
Yes, this is true I have had a little ah bit of luck. But yes, a lot of it’s been a lot of work as well hasn’t it like the batch. Oh na I wish I could remember what I was going to ask if you of mind so be right for interrupting. Ah, ah.

13:41.60
Ian Pettigrew
That ah, and so that’s it there yet that the strengths piece and the and the cognitive behavioral coaching about mindset ah of been the real things that have kind of been 30 points for me and I’ll go on.

13:43.75
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yes, yeah, ah I remember.

13:56.22
katrinamcollier
So did you find though? so I wrote an entire chapter about the energy we hold around money which is often money stories which is what you’re talking about. Did you find some of the aha moments when you were doing that when you kind of the stories would go back to? oh you know Uncle Joe said this to me when I was a kid and I’ve taken that honor as gospel or. You know, did you have those kind of aha moments where you could thread the story back to a teacher said this or someone did this or just.

14:18.76
Ian Pettigrew
Um, yeah, but some but I think it’s more generic like we we didn’t have much money at all when I was growing up. Um, and so you know one of my fears is always of being skinned.

14:25.67
katrinamcollier
Society says. But.

14:33.57
katrinamcollier
And yeah, and.

14:34.58
Ian Pettigrew
And you know it’s like I hate to be back in that position and ever again. So yeah, there’s some generic things like that. So yeah, so my my entire money Motivator is not to be skinned you know with is not to be in that position. But.

14:43.44
katrinamcollier
Um, yes, yeah, yeah, that was so yeah, we call them money blocks. So it’s a really interesting So there’s um.

14:50.12
Ian Pettigrew
You know we we were when I was a small child.

14:59.17
katrinamcollier
Worked with Polly Alex Alexander and Denise Stufffield Thomas and I’ve just written about Mike’s and it’s stuff like that. But oh yeah, the most bizarre but it was also the stuff that comes down to you down the gene pool as well. That can really impact your relationship with money so you know I didn’t grow up poor. But there was still that influence of what came down to me from what was said to me it was yeah it was just interesting with all the stories. Yeah, and.

15:23.76
Ian Pettigrew
Facebook still occasionally asks me whether I got went to the same ladies college as you, it’s ah it’s yeah, it’s still occasionally prompted me to say. Do you want to write a review or add this to your profile. So it’s somehow got you and I confused on on occasions but to to.

15:28.21
katrinamcollier
Imble lady scholar.

15:35.54
katrinamcollier
Ah, very very strange I mean to the fact that I actually went to a ladies college probably shocks most people. But yes I don’t know that I’ll call it that now I imagine it’s peel see or something Yes, who knows um.

15:41.41
Ian Pettigrew
But to you lock it up sex and but for me, the kind of that that work thing I am so glad that I’ve done the work because the upside is just massive.

15:55.90
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, um, yeah.

15:57.63
Ian Pettigrew
You know and it’s like and that’s why I’m a huge fan of continuing to focus on my own personal development. You know, perpetual student because and there’s just so much capacity for growth and there’s so much more that that I want to do and whilst not burning out at the same time.

16:14.23
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and I think that yeah have you ever done The five Love Languages I Bet your acts of service. Yeah, because it you just you’re always wanting to give to the community. So I’d I’d put money on it. It’s quite interesting. Um.

16:19.76
Ian Pettigrew
That night. Yeah.

16:28.91
katrinamcollier
Really losing my thought in this one This is shocking what is with me. Ah you go and say something I’m like there’s something to say on that and it’s gone out of my head and I go off and somewhere else This is because I know you too well isn’t it. Ah oh I notice why.

16:41.41
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, but but it is that that motivation for me is always is always the future. You know that that’s inevitably where and I tend to be looking so and.

16:47.32
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah. What do you think? So why is it because I I don’t have I don’t get enough men on this podcast and I I find a lot of men sort of do that stiff upper lips suck it up all that kind of the you know and I had Jeff way on very early. We were talking about that. What what do you think is it is about you. But allows you to be vulnerable that you kind of go actually know I did I do want to change who I am so I am going to do some work like casting your mind back to when you went and it changed something.

17:19.57
Ian Pettigrew
Well yeah, ah I think there’s 2 things 1 is I don’t think the acknowledgement in men ever. Want to do the work and want to do something different is is that uncommon you know I think that’s really common and I think what? Ah but I think what can happen.

17:30.65
katrinamcollier
Ah.

17:34.62
katrinamcollier
Is a um.

17:37.66
Ian Pettigrew
Is there’s this sort of filter about. Do not show vulnerability and and I so for me what what changed and I spend so much of a time working with other people both 1 on one and in groups and.

17:42.90
katrinamcollier
Right? okay.

17:49.39
katrinamcollier
Me. And.

17:56.66
Ian Pettigrew
Often in groups I’m asking people to be vulnerable in which case as a facilitator I have to role model vulnerability. You know I I can’t just stand there at the front and expect other people to engage in an activity that I’m not prepared to So I guess I’ve spent a lot of time being vulnerable.

18:03.71
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

18:12.76
katrinamcollier
Ah, um.

18:14.98
katrinamcollier
Oh.

18:16.58
Ian Pettigrew
The other thing though is I’m not trying to be everything to everybody and impress everybody. You know it’s like because that that’s that I want a hiding to nothing so there might be people that listen and think what a weirdo or it’s not you know, clearly not the full finished thing or and it’s like that’s absolutely fine. You know it’s so.

18:27.70
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, it’s just fine. Yeah, what none of us are.

18:36.53
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, no, but I think the vulnerability just because I’m not bothered about what people think it’s so much easier. Well sorry within reason that needs an asterisk and it it makes it easier to be vulnerable and I know it I know it’s got a power you know it that the honesty it’s important and.

18:45.40
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, well no, but it’s yeah it does Yeah that.

18:55.29
Ian Pettigrew
If we you know, look back at everything about emotional labor If we’ve got to pretend to be something else and we’ve got a kid ourselves and could kid other people that comes at a cost. You know it. It can be exhausting So I’d rather just be me and then people can like it a little bit.

19:03.27
katrinamcollier
That’s exhausting um me but I think that goes but that goes back to the fact that you do like who you are because I mean I very much remember when I didn’t like who I was and there’s no way I would have coped with that people.

19:19.76
Ian Pettigrew
Um, yeah, wow.

19:22.14
katrinamcollier
Not liking me when you get to that point you’re like oh okay, whatever there are people I don’t like you know I mean it’s you know it. It’s funny but I definitely think that the mask you must see it a lot in the corporate environment as well that you work in the the corporate masks that go up as people are fighting to fit in and.

19:25.13
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah.

19:41.90
katrinamcollier
And it’s just yeah, it’s so damaging to them physically as well isn’t it because of the mental health as well. The it’s my favorite word though. Um.

19:43.67
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, we yeah and and tiring for people to do that. So and I think sometimes the word authenticity gets overused and bandied around a lot. But yeah, but but actually just being able to be who you are that there’s so much.

20:02.26
katrinamcollier
Um, ah yeah, yeah, it’s.

20:02.58
Ian Pettigrew
You know for that so that we can be who we are and we can accept other people and see the strengths and the and the value and the power that that they bring it’s not too much to ask. Is it.

20:13.23
katrinamcollier
Live It’s it is funny because it I mean it’s been such a long journey for me because of obviously my start was interesting and I did actually realize that I’ve got goofier in the last like year specifically and I’m just not caring who’s hearing it and it’s just if somebody doesn’t like me being goofy. The thing.

20:17.88
Ian Pettigrew
So and.

20:32.76
katrinamcollier
By and I’m mean friends like just to friends I’m just being much more who I genuinely am and it’s just quite liberating as like well we’re getting there like you said work in progress.

20:40.52
Ian Pettigrew
No absolutely And and I’m I’m learning more all the time like my my academic research is focused on hope and I am just again put in.

20:46.71
katrinamcollier
Yeah, ah, interesting. Why hope why hope what made you choose Hope I mean I I know the answer but for the podcast.

20:59.00
Ian Pettigrew
Um, and because I’ve absolutely fallen in love with the subject of hope so we we kind of we bandy the word around a lot like you know I hope I hope this happens I Hope you’re okay I hope this.

21:08.89
katrinamcollier
Ah, oh.

21:12.64
Ian Pettigrew
So it’s kind of in common usage. It’s a sort of a wishful thinking or even a naive optimism but hope in Psychology is a really specific thing. It’s about a belief in a better future. You know it’s about so believing that the future is going to be better than the present. You know, either personally or or around us and.

21:15.62
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

21:23.74
katrinamcollier
Oh yeah, yeah.

21:32.80
Ian Pettigrew
It’s about being able to see the path and knowing that you can do what you need to do to make it so and lots of lots of people have not gotten nearly enough hope for the future and one of the sorry long answer to I hope and then one of the other challenges. Yeah.

21:34.43
katrinamcollier
Oh fantastic.

21:46.83
katrinamcollier
No good have a long answer.

21:51.22
Ian Pettigrew
Is that when you look at this in ah, an organizational context when leaders attempt to help other people have hope they go to stupid places like they either manage them badly or they engage in toxic Positivity you know because they believe that we need to focus on the positive and but not.

21:53.25
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

22:09.93
Ian Pettigrew
Toxic Positivity and overdoing it. So so what? why hope is I think it’s a really empowering lens to view the world and ah and and ourselves through and it’s a really empowering way of focusing on a better future and uncovering the journey and I’ve just absolutely.

22:10.69
katrinamcollier
And then just.

22:20.97
katrinamcollier
Um.

22:27.20
katrinamcollier
Um, it’s amazing.

22:29.35
Ian Pettigrew
Falling in love with it as a research topic and that the deeper have been diving. It’s just the the more and I enjoy it and the more of lint personally as well. So actually that’s been a real part of my growth as well and some of my own research as well. Which is really enjoyable.

22:38.93
katrinamcollier
Yeah, can you share an example without giving your research away where you’ve kind of gone Oh like light bulb without giving you research away. But.

22:50.20
Ian Pettigrew
Um, yeah, but I could probably share about them then and but I’m gonna be given a respect right? could help it very them. They so ah I’m applying this to.

22:57.60
katrinamcollier
Not yet. Ah, yeah, yeah. Who.

23:05.58
Ian Pettigrew
So I’ve committed to indoor cycle. The height of everest in a day to raise money for it for justice in a day. Yeah, yeah though I I admitted to this when I broke my ankle three years ago and I’m still training and that the challenge itself will.

23:07.95
katrinamcollier
Yes, oh in a day I didn’t know you’re going to do it in a day right? Okay, you are really are crazy. Yeah.

23:22.66
katrinamcollier
Ah, and.

23:24.54
Ian Pettigrew
Probably take me I reckon 17 or 18 hours on the bike in the day. So it’s the equivalent of running like four back-to-back marathons in a day and you’ve met me in person plenty of times I am not in that kind of shape and I’ve probably never been in that kind of stroke so yet.

23:28.19
katrinamcollier
Spring.

23:34.67
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, um, yet yet? yeah.

23:43.38
Ian Pettigrew
This is a long term training thing. So I am applying my own hope research to my Everest thing journey and so the elements of it are about really having a crystal clear focus on what you want having a a.

23:48.25
katrinamcollier
Amazing. Thank you.

23:55.73
katrinamcollier
And.

24:00.89
Ian Pettigrew
Real idea of what you can do to make it a reality but also not just focusing on the positive also having a real openness to what’s going to go wrong. What’s going to trip me up. What are the problems that are either gonna cap come at me externally.

24:04.73
katrinamcollier
Ah.

24:10.92
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yep.

24:18.50
Ian Pettigrew
Like last year it was traveling too much and not being at home and near the bike and and also what are the problems they’re going to trip me up internally so you know again to be vulnerable I’ll reveal one of mine if I was traveling for a couple of weeks and I did absolutely rubbish on exercise and I’d eaten in hotels and eaten junk for two weeks

24:20.77
katrinamcollier
Yeah, um.

24:32.53
katrinamcollier
Um, ah ah yeah.

24:37.99
Ian Pettigrew
I’m kind of almost like oh well should give up I can’t do this I don’t know that you know that that’s one of the the the areas where I can trip myself up and so it it’s about.

24:44.76
katrinamcollier
Yeah, so much of that is also that what’s in the food that you’re then eating as well because when you’re at home. You can eat healthier food and yeah.

24:53.38
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, absolutely. Ah, absolutely so it’s about this real positive expectation from the future a massive focus on being resourceful. You know keeping it on your own agency doing what you can do doing the work and but also.

24:59.63
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

25:06.71
katrinamcollier
Um, I mean it’s well it’s more be realistic about the negative isn’t it’s like okay at at the seventeenth hour I’m likely to not be enjoying this very much so what can I do? what.

25:10.15
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, embracing the negative and and working to overcome it. Yeah.

25:22.34
katrinamcollier
You know and putting strategies in place rather than yeah, see what you mean like put I take it with the toxic Positivity you’re just ignoring the negatives is that the destructive side of it. Ah.

25:22.40
Ian Pettigrew
Well it.

25:32.47
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, well when you see cultures with toxic positivity and it’s really interesting. It seems to come from both ends toxic Positivity can be the preserve of a toxic manager who is narcissistic and doesn’t want to hear anything negative. So you can. You can get it at kind of that problematic end but you can also get toxic positivity from really well-meaning managers who want to keep people focused on a better future so you can get toxic positivity coming for kind of both good and bad reasons.

25:49.66
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

26:02.58
katrinamcollier
So.

26:08.39
Ian Pettigrew
And I’m I’m interested I’ve I’ve seen it recently where some um, there’s been quite a public fallout on some boards where they’ve been talking about you know should we focus on the positive or should we focus on the negative and my answers. Yes, actually you need to do both in the right context and and so.

26:21.51
katrinamcollier
Both yeah well I had I hence so I guess that’s where the strengths come in isn’t it because if you focus on the two and have we got the right people working on the right bit because maybe Katrina should work on that and age should work on this and and then you can.

26:28.38
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, so that so.

26:38.17
Ian Pettigrew
Absolutely absolutely.

26:41.51
katrinamcollier
Yeah, but then that would take that vulnerability again of being honest about the work and honest about who’s got what strengths and then yeah, then corporate masks come into play. Oh it’s complicated How to be fun research.

26:54.10
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, but ah again it but that’s one of the reasons I love doing the strengths post work is often what we’ll do is I’ll do individual development with people but in a team so you might have a group of 10 or 12 people that work really closely together.

27:01.80
katrinamcollier
Ah, m.

27:03.49
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

27:11.63
Ian Pettigrew
And we’ll do a session on individual strengths and individual development but they’ll do it as a team. They’ll do it with each other and it’s a real. You can see the penny drop in people that one of the principles. We sometimes talk about in strengths is that we say none of us see other people as they truly are. Rather we view them through the lens of the filter of who we are So You know a kind of fiercely competitive. Go getting positive salesperson that wants to you know win at all costs and you know get on with it and if you’re quiet reflective thoughtful. Want to think about what might go wrong that.

27:30.70
katrinamcollier
Um, ah absolutely and our experiences.

27:40.23
katrinamcollier
Ah.

27:48.70
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, um.

27:48.74
Ian Pettigrew
A danger that I could look at you and write you off whereas actually all those strengths that you need that I haven’t got or what I need and and so that’s why we often do strengths with the team because if you can get people to start to look at the people around them and value them who they are.

28:04.13
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, and I remember filling it out for you before coming on your podcast many moons ago which would be completely different now because we did it I think about five days before the world shut down. So it’s high.

28:07.77
Ian Pettigrew
Instead of judge the difference that that’s a game changer for them that to that sticks. Yeah.

28:23.93
katrinamcollier
I Listened back to it and I was like I don’t do that anymore. I don’t do that anymore. Don’t do that anymore. I don’t do that. Actually in fact I don’t do anything that I did back then because the whole lot went to shit. But anyway, um, that there was no way you could gain that that either you know sometimes you can you can tell and there was no way I could.

28:28.30
Ian Pettigrew
Um I.

28:30.12
Ian Pettigrew
10

28:36.32
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah, yeah.

28:41.16
katrinamcollier
Do anything but tell the truth on it. That’s I thought was really impressive so they did genuinely come up with the right result? No yeah.

28:44.99
Ian Pettigrew
Well, ah as in ah, that’s one of the reasons I like Clifton strengths you know and it’s not everything. It’s not the whole answer to everything but it’s valid and reliable and it provides a really empowering lens for people. So yeah and I still. Work on my strength every single week. Yeah, it’s kind of I’m I’m on an ongoing mission to practice what approach? Yeah, absolutely.

29:00.99
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, what you have to because it’s too livelihood So hang out So we’ve got research into hope what’s the book about then and and what prompted you to write a book other than practical everyone you knows written one in our space.

29:19.60
Ian Pettigrew
Yeah I was feeling really left out I was kind of you know? Ah I was really my youth. My usp was I’ve never written a book. You know it’s becoming a real point of differentiation and ah and stand out and so.

29:21.21
katrinamcollier
I Skill I left out as I wish no. Ah.

29:29.90
katrinamcollier
It is though weird isn’t it I think everybody’s got one because our little network has it and of course they don’t it it. It is my funnel. Ah yeah, ah maybe.

29:35.77
Ian Pettigrew
And it’s like and ah’ I’ve had the privilege to like write chapters in a couple of books and to be mentioned in new books as well and on the and confession I don’t think I’ve ever said this before but ah I’ve beginning to regret it already. I’ve got a little obstection of my bookshelf which are books that I feature in.

29:52.95
katrinamcollier
Um I can.

29:54.92
Ian Pettigrew
And it’s like and it means a lot to me and the thought of actually having my book in that section that means a lot to me and with that it’s with that. Thank you? Ah, it will have pride of play. Yeah.

29:58.89
katrinamcollier
Well I will make sure that you get a copy of the damage of words when it is published obviously because you have a whole chapter in that this is my That’s my that’s my spiritual shelf and then the one above is everybody I knows books that they written and a few randoms thrown in. But.

30:13.67
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, well in which case I I will be contributing to that as well though and excellent so without it sounding too grandiose part of it is about legacy you know and part of it is about scale and you know really fortunate to do the work or get to do.

30:18.96
katrinamcollier
Ah, as you’ll be in one of those probably.

30:23.23
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

30:32.86
katrinamcollier
Um.

30:33.45
Ian Pettigrew
Um, but coming towards my late 50 s you know, got an eye on the future and so part of it is about legacy and about scaling that impact. Um, the book is called hope is a strategy and that’s because people all the time say well hope isn’t a strategy.

30:37.85
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

30:43.93
katrinamcollier
Oh I like it course it is I like it.

30:49.91
Ian Pettigrew
Because they’re really confused about what hope actually is and it’s a leadership book aimed at helping leaders to genuinely help people around them to find hope for themselves and I deliberately so ah, deliberately don’t say give hope.

31:01.85
katrinamcollier
I like it. No, it can find it themselves.

31:07.31
Ian Pettigrew
Because I don’t believe you can truly give hope but you can help people find it. So yeah, it’s been. It’s been in me for a long time I think can it’s just be in a sort of and and I did a proposal it exactly that and I in not the real like.

31:16.10
katrinamcollier
Um, I know that feeling it needs to be out of the body. Yeah I know that feeling. Um.

31:26.14
Ian Pettigrew
Let me be really honest here. So I followed Allison Jones at practical inspiration publishing for a while on social media and Allison was running a writing workshop at Gladstone’s library in Wales which is an hour drive from here and and I did confess this on the day.

31:33.50
katrinamcollier
Yeah I know Allison. Um, yeah.

31:45.59
Ian Pettigrew
I Went to that one day workshop and I find writing really really hard. So my aim was to at the end of the day say I’ve given it my best shot This is not for me and I can give up legitimately having known that it’s just too hard and I can never do it.

31:49.17
katrinamcollier
And.

32:02.77
katrinamcollier
Ah.

32:05.21
Ian Pettigrew
And Alison managed to completely mess things up by helping me to find my writing um within me mess it up in a really positive way and and yeah, that workshop was really good and then took part in 1 of the proposal challenges as well and it um and since then yeah, just.

32:10.81
katrinamcollier
Ah, ah, she would do that amazing.

32:19.30
katrinamcollier
And here we are.

32:22.97
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, finding the process hard but really really enjoying it and yeah and thankful. You know it’s only recently now I’m starting to adjust my hours to create some space for it because I’m not great at writing in like 35 minutes in between coaching sessions.

32:25.35
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:35.35
katrinamcollier
Spice and. Yet? yeah yeah I know I totally understand that well I’m in the middle of formatting out my second business book so that’ll have been 3 so yeah, no I hear you now if people would love to.

32:41.40
Ian Pettigrew
You know I need the head space to really yeah to get into it. So um.

32:57.60
katrinamcollier
Connect with you talks you more where would you like me to direct them. Yeah asies.

33:03.50
Ian Pettigrew
Linkedin probably the best place to always find me and where um and shall I say we’re I’m leasted un responsive. It’s like the yeah sorry private joke in that like yeah and i.

33:14.45
katrinamcollier
I’ve got I’ve got you on Whatsapp So I’m but I’m fine.

33:17.58
Ian Pettigrew
What one of the challenges is with black gear just being so stupidly busy I know it was just really really slow to reply to messages so that’s why I qualify it with them and probably leached and responsive up on Linkedin but that’s ah now we’ve got a bit of margin. It’s better.

33:20.21
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

33:26.92
katrinamcollier
I I’ve just written a whole I’ve just written a whole paragraph about how we have these mobile phones within reach and we don’t reply to people like literally this technology should make life easier to communicate. It’s made it harder than it’s just made it harder and it’s it.

33:42.14
Ian Pettigrew
Um, and but it yeah but we we.

33:45.39
katrinamcollier
Just too many channels all at once and everyone’s like I’ll get back to that and then you just don’t.

33:48.49
Ian Pettigrew
It. It’s it. It’s interest interesting. That’s again, been a little project for me and based on a book I know somebody else is writing and which ah I won’t mention now because having you got the attempt to mention it and but I’ve been deliberately.

33:54.50
katrinamcollier
M.

34:01.79
katrinamcollier
When we disconnect I’m going to hear. Ah.

34:06.61
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, honor ol off.

34:06.97
Ian Pettigrew
Turning off loads to notifications you know profile at different times and then I’m I’m just using a new app. Yeah, you said of all, we’ve got an app for everything and which gives me a unified inbox. So I’ve got one inbox that has got Linkedin Whatsapp and Instagram.

34:12.29
katrinamcollier
You have yeah the up man.

34:23.98
katrinamcollier
Clever.

34:26.17
Ian Pettigrew
All of my messages in 1 inbox and I’ve got it set to show me unread messages only so instead of having like 6 or 7 different messes I’ve got 1 place I can go and it’s like right there. There’s the list because daft does it sounds I like email you know because I like an inbox that.

34:40.64
katrinamcollier
That’s sensible. Yeah yeah, I’m like that and then it’s easy to keep track of it all that sort of thing there. We go? Well thank you.

34:46.20
Ian Pettigrew
I know I will deal with stuff and just work through. Yeah, absolutely so yeah, long and it Linkedin.

34:56.52
katrinamcollier
No, it’s fine. It’s a good answer Ashley and I’m now I want to know want to know what the app is anyway, we’ll talk about that in a minute. Ah thank you Ian I really appreciate you coming and chatting.

35:04.66
Ian Pettigrew
Ah, you what you want.