Ep. 26: Healing To Shine Your Light and Change Lives with Chantelle Larsen

 

Unedited Transcript: Healing with Chantelle Larsen

00:00.72
katrinamcollier
Chantelle Larsen welcome to Beyond The Damage of Words podcast! I’m so excited. We finally got here. Let’s take it has taken a bit so I there is absolutely no preamble on this podcast. We just get straight into it. So what led you into healing or changing or seeking help and. Anything to make you feel better. What led you there. It’s huge question.

00:23.57
Chantelle Larsen
So it is um so first I think healing we think of it as sometimes just a physical piece. So for many years for me. It was all about the physical so I would eat right? I would.

00:36.81
katrinamcollier
Ah, and.

00:39.81
Chantelle Larsen
Um, a yoga teacher a trained yoga teacher. But there were circumstances that meant that when we talk about words I had internalized a lot of words and that wasn’t helping me so there’s the other aspect that I would say which is the.

00:51.67
katrinamcollier
Ah, they’re so damaging.

00:59.21
Chantelle Larsen
Spiritual ah mental piece and how I had absorbed those words meant that across my body had established chronic inflammation. So rash my right eye had closed up I lost the ability to walk at one stage. Um I had.

01:02.59
katrinamcollier
Um.

01:09.62
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

01:15.28
katrinamcollier
Wow.

01:19.40
Chantelle Larsen
What I didn’t know at that point was I had tumors. So this internalization of words I went down knocked on my husband’s office door because I couldn’t see out of my eye and I was like I was just a wreck I wasn’t ah able to sleep and I was like I.

01:21.28
katrinamcollier
On my word.

01:37.13
katrinamcollier
Um.

01:38.60
Chantelle Larsen
Think I need to see the doctor I mean for anyone else they probably would have seen the doctor before then and he looked at me. He’s like I’m so proud of you? Um, um, we were both. He came with me. Yeah well I’ve been.

01:49.80
katrinamcollier
Is that because you finally asked for help is that why? yeah yes, yes.

01:56.58
Chantelle Larsen
Doctor for like physical different things. But yeah, finally asking for help in a way that it isn’t just a mentor piece and this is going to sound weird to many people but my husband for certain things comes with me because I get treated differently at the doctor. Um. So we caught contacted the doctor. It was literally urgent because I wasn’t able to sleep at that point there were like it was like 4 or 5 nights in a row. So also your system is in like this. Um, so we went. My doctor wasn’t in my doctor was on training so I saw another doctor.

02:18.88
katrinamcollier
Wow.

02:33.30
Chantelle Larsen
You’ve got to imagine I looked like crap I don’t know if I’m allowed to swear anyway I look like Sate Ti T Um and he was there with me and right I all clo like I was just a mess I was explaining to him what had gone on so several factors had led to that event.

02:34.10
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, oh yeah, no, it’s fine.

02:51.89
Chantelle Larsen
1 I had been told not to be visible and I thought I had overcome that and then move rolled when I got to the new role or and it was through I knew the put that a person in the company but there was a senior level interview and.

03:04.10
katrinamcollier
Oh.

03:09.69
Chantelle Larsen
In Switzerland you have your picture on the cv and he was just like I wouldn’t have hired you on paper but you know okay and I just thought my tummy at that point it was like oh god what do I do because you often think okay I can’t jump from cv to Cv but I can’t stay where I am.

03:10.67
katrinamcollier
Yeah, oh.

03:27.42
Chantelle Larsen
Because I’ve been told not to be visible. Um, and there was a lot you know more? so I thought okay well it got worse. So yeah, it got worse. It was yeah it was It was then explicitly told this is a white germanic space.

03:31.25
katrinamcollier
Can I be really direct on this is this a racism thing or is it a sexist thing or is that a I mean they’re not being visible. Oh My god.

03:46.46
Chantelle Larsen
You can’t be here. Um or you can’t lead here So what happened internally for the last.

03:53.50
katrinamcollier
Oh I Just I can’t comprehend that people can just I would never understand how anyone can be like that ever. Um I’ll just.

03:57.86
Chantelle Larsen
For the last many years well I’ll come to that and in the in the therapy session because actually I can and I think I needed to get there. Yeah, so.

04:08.49
katrinamcollier
Yeah, ah well you had to? That’s the worst part isn’t it. Oh.

04:15.54
Chantelle Larsen
So so it it it became so um, so um racist but also there was a power dynamic so in challenging they made me change my Linkedin.

04:23.25
katrinamcollier
5

04:29.30
Chantelle Larsen
Remove my Linkedin education and if I didn’t it was like we’re going to make your life. Hell I was in the garden gardening on a Saturday and I had we had rescheduled the call I jump on the call. My manager wasn’t there. It was the executive and it was all like literally just threatening me and it got to the stage of everything. In my life had always navigated so when I first moved here. Um my company which was great had found me an apartment but then because I was black I couldn’t have the apartment. It was everything but I found a way I then found a temporary accommodation.

04:48.89
katrinamcollier
Oh.

05:02.85
Chantelle Larsen
And in my mind it felt it felt like a maze that had actually closed down and I could no longer find a route forward and I think psychologically that had happened and then my body started to shut down and then when I went to the doctor for help I was asking specifically for therapy and I had even so.

05:20.84
katrinamcollier
Ah, so.

05:21.20
Chantelle Larsen
Spoken to one of my friends of my black network for black therapists who had gone and he was like yeah, all racism just exists that just happens and I’d never seen my husband get really angry before and he kind of like thumped his hand. My husband on the um on the chair.

05:24.10
katrinamcollier
Button.

05:38.51
katrinamcollier
So table. Yes.

05:41.11
Chantelle Larsen
And he actually stood up kind of like Alpha man I had to calm it down like you know you have someone and I was in in pieces really asking you for help and I just kind of calmed him down got home to sit down and I said well can I just have some cream for my eye which sounds really funny Now. So It wasn’t even just the racism for me in the workplace and in society it was even when I was going to get help from the doctor. Um I know he’s danish and he’s white but he’d never seen.

06:05.90
katrinamcollier
And is your husband is he swift is he white is he black is he okay.

06:15.38
Chantelle Larsen
How bad it could get because I was his wife coming to him First of all, he was relieved like yeah I think you should have gone a you just go you know in all reality he’s got a very Dan sense of humor. He was helping me supporting me finally getting help and I was in a sense like it wasn’t even rejected but ah, you know it’s nothing. You know you should just.

06:23.20
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

06:30.68
katrinamcollier
Rejected.

06:33.91
Chantelle Larsen
Carry on and he had a migraine that day and I was like well look. He said how were you so calm and I just said to him because I always have to be you know I can’t come across as the angry black woman was going to achieve nothing and then I sent an email to my.

06:35.28
katrinamcollier
It’s all on your head. You’re making it out which doesn’t matter like this.

06:43.37
katrinamcollier
Yeah, it’s a lifetime event.

06:53.00
Chantelle Larsen
Doctor to say for the first time in my life I came to you for help and to try try not to cry. But I have came to help and I want to be here for my son and my daughter she was brilliant. She wrote me off sick said I’m not here this week because she was on training. That’s why she couldn’t see me.

07:10.62
katrinamcollier
Um.

07:11.45
Chantelle Larsen
She um, immediately said look we have a therapist underneath. Let me put the referral in now I haven’t seen you but she she could dissent because I had never the thing was my husband always gets six night after sick I had never been sick in my life. Never.

07:23.17
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

07:25.84
Chantelle Larsen
My mom and dad brought me up like you go you go just go. You know you’ll sick. You’re sick I Know that’s not necessarily the right way. But that’s how it was brought up and I would just like attend virtual calls. You know I’d be dying with some chicken soup. You know, made in the background and things like that. So I was always turning up and I always always showing up So actually there was a sense of.

07:26.52
katrinamcollier
You go to work. You’re not sick. Yeah, absolutely not you know.

07:38.62
katrinamcollier
On.

07:45.54
Chantelle Larsen
I mean guilt and shame in like oh my God going off sick. It wasn’t even just the healing and I think mental health generally as well. There is a shortage of therapists at one. So it’s hard to get access.

07:57.18
katrinamcollier
Ah.

07:59.38
Chantelle Larsen
And then in the black community if I can say anything of your listeners in the black community. We have so much shame about going to a therapist but my God if anything you need it right? that A yeah.

08:05.30
katrinamcollier
Um.

08:08.55
katrinamcollier
And probably need it more so that the microaggressions and the well and the blatant aggressions I mean it’s just it’s almost like you have to be on defense just for being you isn’t it. It’s crazy.

08:18.71
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, she warned me that there was a six month waitlist but what happened was my lovely therapist Daniela she had a cancellation so there was like an email or by the way you know there’s a cancellation I was like yes I can come now. So yeah.

08:31.27
katrinamcollier
Oh thank you universe All that was kind. Wow.

08:36.68
Chantelle Larsen
In some way the universe was there now she wasn’t the right fit because she couldn’t really understand so they because I got rejected for like oh no black therapists don’t exist but by the way there’s a there’s a list of you know 2025 you know, like here. Um.

08:55.66
Chantelle Larsen
But having her she was my connector to the rest of my needs and the first having her and the other thing that we’re quite suspicious about is any kinds of drugs. Um, but because I couldn’t sleep. The first thing I needed to do was sleep in order to give my system a chance to recover.

08:58.49
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

09:04.61
katrinamcollier
I know. Okay.

09:14.54
Chantelle Larsen
And let me give people in an indication of what happens and we we talk burnout my son would ask me for for I mean he cooks as well. But like do a boiled egg I couldn’t even function I put chopped onions in a pot to boil an egg so this is coming from someone I’ve cooked since the age I did Sunday dinner.

09:27.66
katrinamcollier
Oh wow.

09:33.70
Chantelle Larsen
From me age a kind of full british roast although I live in Switzerland I have a british centenian and caribbean heritage and so like I would cook full on roast my parents brought me to to do everything multitask and do dinner parties and then suddenly I couldn’t even boil an egg I mean we’re talking. I mean Deallia Smith kind of teaches you how to get. We’re talking like very basic things I couldn’t function. So. The first thing was like.

09:54.49
katrinamcollier
I Mean you were you were having a I mean they would accord it. They call it burnout now don’t they but you sounds like you’re having with the old school breakdown which I think I now call Burnout I don’t know why maybe it’s more an acceptable word but you you it clearly? Wow What do you shut down.

10:00.93
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, complete right now compete. Yeah so I the first thing with her was at least she stabilized me so I think therapy in a way depending on how bad you are I’m just conveying. My story was actually really.

10:13.60
katrinamcollier
Yeah, that’s just your story.

10:20.51
Chantelle Larsen
Bad um, the first thing I think from that point of view of therapy was allowing me to have the condition of one and the most important things you need is sleep. Um, to start to even process. You know what more that you can do I think that was step 1

10:30.12
katrinamcollier
And.

10:35.47
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

10:39.50
Chantelle Larsen
Me she wasn’t great. Although I had her on the rest. So there were 2 other um, important connectors I found a black trauma therapist. She is a gold olympic medalist.

10:44.30
katrinamcollier
Um.

10:50.97
Chantelle Larsen
Saved my life originally for the Congo but she won an olympic medal for Switzerland and she’s really taught from trauma therapy she works with the body.

10:52.91
katrinamcollier
Um, amazing.

11:00.60
katrinamcollier
And she will have experienced what you have experienced in that case. Yeah, um.

11:01.37
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah I didn’t have to translate everything and with the other therapist. It was like oh really does that happen in Switzerland which is you know, really, it’s like it becomes really hard and by the way my therapist was in german so that was another big hurdle for me the first therapist. It’s very hard.

11:19.78
katrinamcollier
Um.

11:20.12
Chantelle Larsen
Convey thoughts feelings, emotions and processor and then you’re doing it. You know in another language but it it was so urgent. It was like I’ll take it. Um so I had that level the second level I found and and actually Patricia my trauma therapist she said how the hell did you get better like my skin and everything.

11:24.49
katrinamcollier
In another language. Um.

11:39.31
Chantelle Larsen
I turned to guacha. Um I found that one of the biggest problems of this internal piece was creating a lot of inflammation and I needed to get rid of all this inflammation and the third piece was um I movement toenstasation response. So for trauma I don’t know if.

11:44.00
katrinamcollier
M.

11:50.37
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

11:57.28
katrinamcollier
Um.

11:57.32
Chantelle Larsen
You’ve had experience of that it was a game changer and I’ll also then explain why in the whole process which was like two and a half it’s not it’s a long process right years my daughter. Yeah, my daughter got diagnosed as being um adhd in.

12:06.71
katrinamcollier
It’s a long process. Yeah it it takes years it does It isn’t.

12:15.97
Chantelle Larsen
And actually she’s almost finished diagnosed of autism. It’s genetic. We then found out and got the diagnosis for me and what happens when you are neuro divergent and you go through Psd plus basically when we it’s not there isn’t a category defined for racial trauma actually but a Psd plus.

12:22.82
katrinamcollier
Ah.

12:27.17
katrinamcollier
Um, no so what I would call Complex Ptsd The the the constant repetitive trauma neglect.

12:34.31
Chantelle Larsen
If You are only yeah. Yeah.

12:42.21
katrinamcollier
It’s like microaggressions isn’t It’s constant little comments that are negative that you’re taking on board to me creates that complex ptistic. Yeah because um, no, it’s you might find this interesting but Gabel Mate is deeply concerned that people with complex ptsd.

12:45.29
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, and you know and it’s never going to actually change like you’re not. It’s never actually going to change.

12:58.73
katrinamcollier
Which is a healable thing are being diagnosed as Adh D you might want to have a look at what he’s talking about because I find it yeah because I’ve cured my complex Ptsd well healed it I can still trigger but I have healed the constant alert hypervigilant like yeah.

13:05.23
Chantelle Larsen
I’ll have a lawyer.

13:18.56
katrinamcollier
Kind of that you know that feeling of like forever being on the lookout like you you’re protecting yourself that side of it. So how how about he’s he’s interesting his interview with the diary of a Ceo Ceo dude whose name has gone out of my head anyway, back to you? yeah.

13:30.95
Chantelle Larsen
Ah, so so you can always be up there but what happens is you take the mass of fall and then it’s really hard to get back up. You’re overwhelmed but what what is very challenging so you go into a system of where you’re sick. You have an insurance company which doesn’t want you to be sick.

13:36.37
katrinamcollier
Because you’re you’re overwhelmed.

13:43.36
katrinamcollier
Yeah, Nope here’s a pill. Yeah Nope because they haven’t experienced it. Yeah.

13:46.79
Chantelle Larsen
They have no category of which to define complex Psd They don’t understand racial trauma. They don’t believe racial trauma I go to their doctor I go to their doctor and we say you know you talk about the power of words words. First of all you internalize and you actually do process them so they do have power badhi words have power in the other hand because it can further oppress you so the words if from a person of power is oppressive but there are systems of oppression.

14:03.59
katrinamcollier
Oh yeah.

14:12.93
katrinamcollier
Certain.

14:18.80
katrinamcollier
Oh yeah.

14:21.62
Chantelle Larsen
So for example, the insurance company I work walk into the doctors give them because my therapist says take everything she knows how it works and I so I take a whole stack which is like an encyclopedia. He’s like yeah yeah, you are really sick and he said can I record the meeting I said sure you can record the meeting I said So what do you do with recording? Oh you can ask for a copy. So at the end.

14:33.33
katrinamcollier
Um, um.

14:41.51
Chantelle Larsen
Meeting he said to me look actually I don’t see you getting well and you know it is a long process um confirming that it was complex psd so actually it was really good and I said well can I have a copy the recording a week later I get a name a letter from the insurance.

14:48.33
katrinamcollier
Oh that’s nice I’d like to see you getting Well Yeah, okay, ah.

14:59.79
Chantelle Larsen
Company saying you’re going to be better by next month and you have to do this and I thought but that’s completely counter to what the insurance company said so I keep chasing up saying can I have a copy of the recording can I have the copy of the recording can I have a copy of the recording and by this sense because what’s happening is financially oh my god.

15:10.23
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

15:19.56
Chantelle Larsen
You’re going to cut off all the money you’re telling me it feels like I’m lying because my words don’t matter your words do but I can’t have a copy of the recording because they’re telling I can’t get through so I ended up to the stress I ended up bleeding constantly for like.

15:21.85
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

15:30.70
katrinamcollier
And this is o lighting to the stress that you’re already feeling.

15:37.98
Chantelle Larsen
This was like six months of then extra because it affects your hormones your cortisol and things like that. So then I was like really low on iron and um I ended up trans the legal company my legal company because I also have legal insurance ends up. Um.

15:41.35
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, absolutely.

15:49.23
katrinamcollier
And.

15:53.88
Chantelle Larsen
Saying well actually we have a conflict conflict of interest. No SHTSherlock as my husband said because he said are you sure you don’t have conflict of interest because their health insurance of the employer was the same as my legal insurance so they transfer externally then we start to get an answer that says um.

16:04.87
katrinamcollier
Um.

16:11.49
Chantelle Larsen
Says oh the the transcript actually confirms what you say so someone actually believes me and but then I say well can I have a copy of recording or we deleted it because you didn’t ask for it I was like well I’ve got 4 emails that I did ask for it but then nothing you know so all all of this is more stress. So I think.

16:14.73
katrinamcollier
Right? and.

16:24.28
katrinamcollier
Um, crazy. So yeah.

16:29.57
Chantelle Larsen
Words Not only internalize some people’s words are worth more than others. There’s a imbalance of words I would say not all words Unfortunately unequal, but.

16:36.50
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, no and I think the worst thing is you can then take them on and I bet this is what your therapist spoke to you about you your your trauma therapist. That we take them on and then we’re repeating them so to ourselves did she have that? Yeah so what did what did is Patricia. What did she do? What was her therapy and how did that help you to move to.

16:51.17
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, it in essence.

17:01.20
Chantelle Larsen
Patricia’s body therapy was amazing because it allowed me to establish a safe space wherever I am and in a world of repeated trauma when you have complex Psd because you’re not. It’s not about the past you’re actually always anxious of the future I can be anywhere within Switzerland.

17:11.90
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

17:16.64
katrinamcollier
Yeah, no, oh So how did you do that? Can we share that how you do that.

17:18.67
Chantelle Larsen
And I can get racism again. But it’s how do I establish my safe space that’s number one? Yeah um, visually I always go to it So it’s ah visually in my body I go to a place then we establish a physical connection of of movement of where I go to that place.

17:30.99
katrinamcollier
On it. M.

17:37.99
Chantelle Larsen
Then we establish actually physical body exercises where it was actually increasing What makes me feel safe and connecting with what empowers me. So for me this is It’s very much like a huer stance by the way like grounding. So so one of the my favorite things I take on board. What she says is she said the.

17:47.14
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah.

17:57.84
Chantelle Larsen
Beginning of hell was I think therefore I am because we play too much in our head. We very much have this spiritual connection connection and we very much have this body connection which we do not come into um and so we use the body we use the gut. We use the spirit spirituality.

18:02.77
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah, um.

18:16.30
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, um, yeah, yeah.

18:16.30
Chantelle Larsen
Which connects us back with who we are which brings healing and through that a lot of other things started coming to me from ancestors through to connections that I have far beyond Switzerland and that started to bring so part of the answers for me because for me, it was like how do I survive.

18:32.12
katrinamcollier
You.

18:35.33
Chantelle Larsen
Because actually they have power to take away my income I will be blacklisted. Um, but it started to come along like you know what Chantelle you’re bigger than Switzerland.

18:40.58
katrinamcollier
Ah, ah.

18:45.92
Chantelle Larsen
You can Actually if you if you start to think within the system that they think of you in that’s your limitation but actually you are unlimited. You actually have to think differently? Um, so I started to think differently but when I when I then combined that with Emdr which made me.

18:53.74
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, you are.

19:01.61
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

19:05.25
Chantelle Larsen
So the difference between I would say Patricia not that we didn’t go into the trauma we did and she gave me those things which are absolutely powerful in emdr my god if we go back into every single trauma um, many traumas release the energy.

19:10.92
katrinamcollier
Um.

19:16.85
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and release the energy that you were holding.

19:24.63
Chantelle Larsen
And lean into them and when you said like it kind of it made me see it for what it is so going back into that very first meeting with the executive when he was like well maybe you know we shouldn’t hire someone like you on paper or.

19:40.37
katrinamcollier
I wouldn’t have heard to Wow. Ah.

19:41.97
Chantelle Larsen
Doing that threatening behavior of of deleting my self you know from Linkedin all all these things what it showed me was my very presence as a black woman foreigner to a swiss system actually was threatening.

19:50.21
katrinamcollier
Um.

19:59.75
katrinamcollier
And.

20:01.33
Chantelle Larsen
In itself and it was counter to a system which is predominantly male predominantly white predominantly swiss. How can my excellent that questions the very being of that system so it was actually it was never about me.

20:07.30
katrinamcollier
Aha.

20:13.13
katrinamcollier
Oh no.

20:19.26
Chantelle Larsen
It was you know and actually in some ways. It’s like yeah, that’s your limitation So I could let go of that at the same time it was you know going into the situation where that person said to me, you know, don’t be visible at the initial piece. It started off with um.

20:22.92
katrinamcollier
Um, yes, yeah.

20:39.20
Chantelle Larsen
It was very interesting um belittling the person came in and belitterled on another the current executiveive which I thought why would you do that? That’s okay, um, is part enough by.

20:43.80
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah I know my camera’s just gone weird by the way I think it’s playing up so it’ll be interesting anyone watching the recording I think it’s playing up. Um I.

20:55.92
Chantelle Larsen
Challenging another? Ah um, she belittled another executive which I felt was very interesting. Why would you do that? Um, and she said I’m not threatened by you which I felt well 40 and slip and my stomach at that point when we go to like always trust your gut.

20:57.79
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

21:06.97
katrinamcollier
Wow! yeah.

21:12.59
Chantelle Larsen
And then I said and I had just moved company from an amazing company and I started to cry for the very first time in ah in a company setting which I felt so much shame until I said until I did the emdr about like why you know it was like crying you know for that. But there again.

21:16.11
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

21:25.10
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah me.

21:31.36
Chantelle Larsen
It was actually she was threatened and her only way in which to deal with that was to bring me down and to tell me not to be visible and don’t you know, hold go and then there was a whole thing about maneuvering and me not to be visible.

21:33.19
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

21:48.81
katrinamcollier
I definitely think so much as I mean there’s so much that’s systemic in Switzerland there’s no denying that but I genuinely think person to person. It is so much about internal self-hatred that gets projected so you are amazing. You’re dynamic. You know you’re great at what you do.

21:50.81
Chantelle Larsen
1 of the other meeting.

22:01.35
Chantelle Larsen
Um, yes.

22:08.25
katrinamcollier
Oh that’s really threatening to me so I will I’ll hit back with the racism and it’s like it’s it’s crazy.

22:11.41
Chantelle Larsen
So for 3 years I wasn’t visible for a long time I haven’t been visible actually but with therapy I took the time to heal because also though when you say that I could have come from a point of.

22:22.84
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

22:29.84
Chantelle Larsen
It’s so easy then to come from your own point of self-hatred. Um I still speak up.

22:30.77
katrinamcollier
Absolutely and defend yourself and to you know, hit back. It’s much harder. It’s much harder to step out of it and almost look at it and go Wow Look what you are showing me about yourself like that that takes time to get to that point. It’s.

22:46.19
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, um, Patricia Sher on her very first meeting I think we feel like we don’t have time to like you’ve got time. You’ve got time and then she said to me, you’re imagining it like a collioscope.

23:00.94
katrinamcollier
Not easy. Um.

23:01.81
Chantelle Larsen
Don’t think about what you need to want to get to next. We’re not going to do that. You need to start and don’t just just keep absorbing it and for for a very long time This Kaleidoscope opened up about how I wanted to feel what I want my future to feel like and I started to see patterns of what I wanted to feel.

23:03.70
katrinamcollier
I.

23:10.31
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah, love that.

23:20.87
Chantelle Larsen
And it was it. It’s been a long road and it. Ah.

23:22.83
katrinamcollier
It is a long road I mean the thing is but we forget that when we start as well like I started at 40 so I had had forty years I mean I had the abuse and then I’d had 20 years of replaying it to myself. So it’s like we we and then we think I will go into this and I’ll be quick. Well.

23:31.14
Chantelle Larsen
Who.

23:41.50
katrinamcollier
Some of it will be quick but most of it takes time because you’re undoing decades of behavior that you’ve learned and you’re replaying in your head. Yeah.

23:45.35
Chantelle Larsen
Correct prep but I could see I could see a pattern basically of me bringing this full power of but which everyone was trying to suppress of collaboration that supersedes any country.

24:00.23
katrinamcollier
Ah.

24:02.60
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

24:04.26
Chantelle Larsen
To basically transform humans at the different level in a way that brings justice in a way that brings equity in a anybody that brings a quality in a way that brings that and it was my way to supersede and a think that would suppress and I could see all these patterns which may would make no.

24:10.43
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

24:22.80
katrinamcollier
Ah.

24:23.80
Chantelle Larsen
Sense to anyone else I’m sure today it probably still doesn’t but I could see how I could engage at an individual level how I could engage at a company level. How can I engage at my board level and how I could engage at a grassroots level I knew I wanted to do more grassroots because I knew that I felt like there wasn’t enough support for.

24:26.14
katrinamcollier
I know.

24:36.35
katrinamcollier
Oh.

24:42.70
Chantelle Larsen
Marginalized people like me so I definitely wanted to do that I knew that I could see so much bull crap. Ah um, a company level. Yeah I really tried.

24:45.21
katrinamcollier
Um.

24:53.27
katrinamcollier
I love the fact you didn’t swear though that’s hilarious I felt you holding that word back. You can say bullshit’s fine I think you get blacklisted on Apple for the fbomb but whatever. Ah.

25:00.45
Chantelle Larsen
Ah, ah yeah, um, a board level which is like why? um a board level. Why are we not providing marginalized shadow boards.

25:09.49
katrinamcollier
Interesting.

25:17.40
Chantelle Larsen
Companies to not give them excuse of why they’ve not got that diversity at the board Now if you provide marginalized shadow boards. They have no um, risk they have the chance to develop to have their successes. They can.

25:17.10
katrinamcollier
Um.

25:21.83
katrinamcollier
Oh.

25:27.74
katrinamcollier
And.

25:34.36
Chantelle Larsen
Bring that innovation and that light that they need and lenses to their to their strategy. Why don’t we do that and I had um so that’s what’s gonna That’s one of the things that’s going to launch so you wannanna they want to run over that.

25:36.42
katrinamcollier
Yeah, amazing. So how how do they do a shadow board or set up a shadow board had That’s what you’re up to oh amazing. So you’ve taken you’ve.

25:53.77
Chantelle Larsen
But I’m doing that to.

25:55.61
katrinamcollier
Is this so you’re taking the experience that you’ve had and you are creating because I was ah I was thinking. There’s a book brewing here but you are creating no tell me about this though that the you’re taking that negative 2 Yeah.

26:01.48
Chantelle Larsen
Oh there’s loads of things brewing but I’m just touching on some of them I think the power of therapy is that you but so that’s one of them that the power of therapy is is I actually went from fighting to creating like it’s like but creating Throughcabularation. It was like. You’re not a star. You’re a constellation. How do I collaborate. So with that I’m gonna it’s a collaboration with Oliver Sanderson so it’s like a collaboration as a charity as an up-for profit which is how do we actually be the answer stop talking start doing but we understand there’s a big gap. Um, you.

26:21.87
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, you know? yeah.

26:25.68
katrinamcollier
Oh.

26:33.61
katrinamcollier
To me.

26:39.35
Chantelle Larsen
Typically people are losing marginalized people at that kind of second third um career level that they drop out of the talent pipe you know you’re a recruitment right? So they don’t have them so I don’t even know if the oh no I know on the current trajey. There are and the solutions that we have.

26:52.20
katrinamcollier
Yeah, um.

26:58.98
Chantelle Larsen
You will still not have a diverse and representative board and by diverse I don’t just mean fifty fifty gender by the way when I talk marginalized I mean let’s start looking at it in multiple lenses and the therapy meant that I knew I didn’t want to do something that was just black.

27:04.26
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

27:14.90
katrinamcollier
Yep.

27:14.25
Chantelle Larsen
I didn’t want to be the solution which was the opposite answer of and so I think therapy means that you really look at it from a point of compassion from a core point of empathy and from a point of love and initially I got asked like will you do this for black and white note I don’t want to do it for black.

27:16.36
katrinamcollier
Yeah, oh Wow! interesting.

27:24.13
katrinamcollier
Yeah, me.

27:33.45
Chantelle Larsen
Not that my black experience doesn’t mean that I suffer and have and have that. But if I come from a point of view of empathy and compassion I can see so many layers um alt btq nor I divert like all of these different things where I’m where I very much like no I’m fed up I Want to cut ties with the old.

27:35.69
katrinamcollier
Me.

27:43.17
katrinamcollier
Um, well absolutely.

27:51.91
Chantelle Larsen
And this you It’s very you become very transformational with therapy is the is the piece that I think that you can achieve.

27:52.42
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, but also perhaps this is but ah perhaps this is your life calling. Perhaps this is you’ve had this experience to lead you to this point and for you.

28:02.78
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah.

28:07.51
katrinamcollier
You know there are others who are going to do it for the black community and that’s brilliant I could give you names. But I shat because this is about you but it’s like they’re doing that you can do yours you can This is where what you’re destined to fix. So.

28:09.28
Chantelle Larsen
And that’s great.

28:16.28
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, yeah, and I so I think it’s part of it I’m very much called Folio driven now I think the ability of someone trying to raise me or eradicate me means that I have a whole portfolio and there were some things that I thought I I was willing to let go off so I was willing in the when.

28:23.37
katrinamcollier
Oh.

28:36.10
Chantelle Larsen
When I was challenged on not being good enough education wise and mated leader I said I would do another doctorate because you know why not just do another doctorate Katri yeah.

28:40.90
katrinamcollier
Oh Wow I’m sorry I thought they got you to delete it because they were threatened by it because it was so good. You mean they want it another.

28:48.98
Chantelle Larsen
Well, the interesting thing was it was do another doctorate but oh by the way you can’t announce that you’re doing any research and I was like well how can everyone elses So It was like a bit of Hidden figures. Do it with your hand behind your back and was like well and I even said to my colleague you know I do p the same. Ah, you know the quote from Hidden figures where she said we pee the same colors I was like we do pee the same. So What happened was um I ended up contacting digital Switzerland to say can you help me because I’ve got um I’m being told you know I’m I’m doing this research but I’m told I can’t announce the research or they connected me with.

29:10.97
katrinamcollier
Um, my God I.

29:23.54
Chantelle Larsen
12 organizations. Um I had but I they said oh we can’t do more for you than we do for anyone else but they had this facility to have coffee meetings so literally like each month I would take a coffee with um, a different company and I went in and I analyzed ai um in terms of what made them successful and what.

29:30.64
katrinamcollier
No.

29:43.15
Chantelle Larsen
Made them fail so it was a huge piece very belittled by um, the um company. So I and trying to then stop me because it tend ended up to be something amazing but they were still belittling it. So I thought you know I’m going to drop it and.

29:43.89
katrinamcollier
Um, man. Yeah.

29:50.44
katrinamcollier
I.

30:02.30
Chantelle Larsen
Having a conversation with someone in the taverstock institute and the tastock institute all about systematic thinking thinking. Okay maybe I do it there and he was I was a half hour conversation which ended up being an hour and he a chantta this is game changing I actually think you should have a call with Oxford and Cambridge and I remember coming off call speaking to my mom going.

30:04.30
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:16.95
katrinamcollier
Wow.

30:22.24
Chantelle Larsen
and and I’d been to a lot of therapy then I said it’s really funny. Everything is shining through I being suppressed but actually you know I go from this environment to oh all Cambridge mom um, you say that to my mom or um, my their eyes light up right.

30:25.00
katrinamcollier
Wow.

30:37.22
katrinamcollier
Of course, but I mean I Also think it just again goes back to that projected lack of worth that It’s that you know you were suppressed because they felt threatened by you. They knew that you were shining light and it’s funny because the brighter your light shines. The more people try and drag you down and make you small and.

30:39.35
Chantelle Larsen
So like on the first of march.

30:47.66
Chantelle Larsen
What.

30:54.85
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, and I think therapy allows you to then to shine your light. So next week I will lead seventy eighteen to twenty three year olds in generative Ai and how we can bring ethics equity andequality which is my whole mission then on the first of March I’ll lead a lecture.

30:56.87
katrinamcollier
And it’s ah signel bright.

31:06.81
katrinamcollier
Amazing.

31:13.64
Chantelle Larsen
Cambridge university um, you know where where you’re just you are able to supersede and you were able to change light. So and it’s but it’s not been one therapist. Let’s be Frank. It’s been 3

31:15.67
katrinamcollier
Ah, that is so amazing.

31:21.88
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

31:29.17
katrinamcollier
That’s okay I mean I’ve written a memoir that has 12 years there’s a lot of people in there a lot. There’s been lots of people because actually what happens is you do and and you will find at some point there’ll be somebody new or you might go this way and there’ll be somebody new. Um.

31:35.24
Chantelle Larsen
But um, ah.

31:44.94
katrinamcollier
It’s funny because I’m I’m reading. It’s like you’re fixing what I’m reading I’m reading the algorithm I don’t know if you’ve read that book and it’s um I’ll have to I have to send you and she’s talking about the bias in technology used for recruiting and it’s all about how it’s sabotaging Well employee experience and job search and.

31:49.13
Chantelle Larsen
No.

32:01.47
Chantelle Larsen
Well I’m advising people on that so were yeah but gone I’ve gone deepened. But yeah.

32:03.80
katrinamcollier
And like experience. So yes, it’s like you 2 need to connect. You’re doing the fixing of what she’s talking about which is just terrifying. Um, so.

32:12.52
Chantelle Larsen
Well I mean you have to consider it as one of it as your future workforce and we are blindly going into it and if the data if the data is not representative so we generally have global North data not global South data but yet we say you know we’ve got a brick economy growing right.

32:18.88
katrinamcollier
Yeah, wind lays the correct word. Um, um.

32:31.47
Chantelle Larsen
We have data that is bias. Um, so therefore though we are building solutions based on a lack of diversity a lack of inclusion a lack of equity but we have a whole load of Dna e and I statements we actually need to get ahead of that fast and design that properly. So yeah, that’s um, in short.

32:34.78
katrinamcollier
Yep.

32:43.97
katrinamcollier
Um, um, instead of saying here’s some technology that isn’t biased when you know I’m well it is like anyway we’ve gone off topic but it just shows you actually.

32:51.00
Chantelle Larsen
But it’s about.

32:58.83
katrinamcollier
That you did hit that point you did hit the we call in a breakthrough I think when you’re out the other side and it doesn’t feel like a breakdown anymore. You’ve had your breakthrough and here you are doing something Absolutely amazing because I think the critical bit was you you went I need help I think that was your.

33:15.42
Chantelle Larsen
Yep.

33:16.68
katrinamcollier
And and it’s really tough I think it’s trauma survivors. It’s really tough because you just learn hyperindependence. Don’t ask for help suck it in and actually it’s the most destructive thing we can do to ourselves whereas asking for help is is the most powerful thing.

33:28.41
Chantelle Larsen
I think there were 2 for me. There are 2 3 I need help letting go of fear and shame fear and shame are um.

33:36.40
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, dreadfully disgusting. Ah, but ah, oh not disgusting. Ah my God What’s the word destructive so close wrong word. But.

33:48.89
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, and um, there was a third but I’ve lost it now. Um, if I right.

33:52.67
katrinamcollier
Oh dear, sorry that was me ask for help fear and shame which is destructive and then oh well we can put that in the show notes. Ah we can keep them hanging.

34:02.78
Chantelle Larsen
Yeah, we put it in the show notes it kind of felt critical but it’s okay, um, but yeah, no let letting go of ah I do believe that for me a part of me died and in death you become fearless.

34:13.13
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, fearless is a wonderful state.

34:20.25
Chantelle Larsen
Um, I will say like people go, you’re doing that you’re doing that or there is a bit that you put you grieve or you put whatever trauma it is It allows you to grieve and part of you dies and in that death as a part of rebirth.

34:35.45
katrinamcollier
Ah, yeah, yeah, um, yeah.

34:37.92
Chantelle Larsen
And I don’t know whether it’s like a project phoenix or something like that. That’s come up but you are very different. You are very different person than what you are so I would say it’s those 3 things to me. Um, yeah.

34:47.74
katrinamcollier
Um, I’d agree there is I love it when people call me fearless I just look at them and think well particular if they don’t know my story as like well just to hear that to be told there. It’s just I was so riddleled with fear. So it’s like now. Yep thank you if people would like to. Chat to you further shall I direct them to Linkedin is that the easiest place. Oh amazing I wouldn’t dream of putting you in a box. Oh my god I love what you’re up to and anyway I can champion it I totally will so I I don’t like putting anybody in a box I think we’re all.

35:07.92
Chantelle Larsen
Oh just just Linkedin. It’s a whole portfolio of stuff. You can never put me in a box katrina. Ah.

35:17.20
Chantelle Larsen
Ah, yeah, but yeah.

35:24.30
katrinamcollier
Bloody weird you know and I just love that. So I um I don’t know if you saw the podcast with Isabel Guther I mean we’re both absolutely crazy when we start talking spiritual so and people probably have me in a recruitment box I’m like you should just say there’s a whole other Box. Ah or 10 So anyway, thank you so much we got there took a bit but we got there. So Thank you,? It was so worth it.

35:41.70
Chantelle Larsen
Um, you you’re you’re welcome darling.