Ep. 16: Striving Versus Thriving with Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó

 

Unedited Interview Transcript with Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó

Zsuzsa welcome to Beyond the Damage of Words podcast. It feels like forever ago we were messaging about hit this but here we are yeah I I I haven’t seen you in years I mean three and a half years went to the pandemic. But I mean what 2006 days seven ah too long.

00:07.50
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, it’s very exciting. Thank you nope.

00:18.10
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, yeah, ah ah, pretty good which is which is which is good. Yeah I’m ah I’m becoming more my authentic self and that has like us like a joy with it. Yeah.

00:18.39
katrinamcollier
How are you are you? yeah.

00:29.23
katrinamcollier
Ah, oh isn’t it. It’s so lovely. Just drop the masks and become yourself so well, let’s talk about that. How did we get to that point. What was the first step. What led you onto the path of healing what got you going? oh.

00:37.45
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
He. It Um I couldn’t function literally So One of the what happened was I Um, and I really identified you in my work and I loved my work and my ah different stages and.

00:48.82
katrinamcollier
Um, oh.

00:57.53
katrinamcollier
Um, ah.

01:02.10
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
We got a new leader who didn’t really understand my role and changed a couple of things up and and I was just like I went into like what is happening so I lost the 1 thing that I could identify with because I wasn’t I didn’t really know myself.

01:05.36
katrinamcollier
Um.

01:14.40
katrinamcollier
Um, when.

01:20.70
katrinamcollier
Interesting.

01:20.70
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And that just rendered me nonfunctional crying not being able to do like life stuff as well and then my manager said just suza you need to go home. That was the first thing like.

01:36.21
katrinamcollier
Which is amazing.

01:39.33
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
You need to stay home. Yeah, as like ah okay.

01:44.11
katrinamcollier
But in a we’re talking in a positive supportive way or in a you can go home with no money way. Oh Wow How the world’s changing. That’s good and yeah.

01:49.72
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, absolutely no, absolutely. Ah, yeah, and that’s you know it’s also um, where I come from Hungary eastern europe and you guys call it communism but it was actually socialism. It’s like.

02:05.90
katrinamcollier
Um, ah.

02:06.53
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Oh okay, yeah I need to take like this is not working and I can try as hard like with all my power like I cannot function so we need to stop and then oh yeah, big time.

02:14.88
katrinamcollier
Yeah, so you were you were obviously suppressing all of your emotions. Everything you’re feeling and just focusing on work. Yeah.

02:26.43
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, and I also like for um, at one point throughout my journey I just realize I don’t really understand my emotions because I cannot name them because I never learned to name them so because we were surviving.

02:39.66
katrinamcollier
Was was that a fan was that a family thing or was it a a European thing Orbita Bye yeah.

02:47.73
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
I Think that’s that’s more like the of what you call the Eastern block like that socialism isn’t about um ah be your beautiful self. It’s about here is your block and then fit in a bit if I can simplify that so it strips away all the spiritualism.

02:58.87
katrinamcollier
Okay, yeah.

03:04.75
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Ah, um, um, and and it it was just you know like just like like really coar survival is what we learned so like striving to to provide a better life find something that you excel at I did it was sports so as pushed into sports.

03:14.88
katrinamcollier
Um, and.

03:20.42
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

03:23.62
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Really really early. Ah on really high level and that that was just my value I actually wrote this up I was like the value wasn’t me the value was what I contributed and what I did.

03:28.22
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah, and the H yeah and your achievements and it. Yeah wow.

03:40.53
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, absolutely yeah yeah, and and coupled that with you know, like really early, not really playing with my own. Um, ah, um, age category I was always like because I was.

03:45.10
katrinamcollier
That makes it hard to really know yourself doesn’t it.

03:57.39
katrinamcollier
A.

04:00.53
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Physically growing faster I was always pushed higher with older older ah people. So I I also missed that elements. Ah, ah from it and I was and then my mom got sick yeah was hard.

04:02.66
katrinamcollier
Only.

04:13.71
katrinamcollier
Um, gun That’s really smooth.

04:17.25
katrinamcollier
Wow and did your mom pass young Lynn as well when you were young I mean that’s tough.

04:22.30
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, she was 41 when she passed. Ah she had she started with breast cancer I think if I I don’t have a lot of memories because my brain survival technique is you’re not going to remember remember a whole bunch of stuff. Um.

04:33.86
katrinamcollier
August sounds familiar. That’s my go to as well. So what did you do before 10 no idea? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:38.23
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, yeah, but apps it’s it’s just it’s so weird but thankfully it’s opening up now. So I think she struggled with it with but for about four or five years um first she went into remission so there was a good chance that she’s going to.

04:50.74
katrinamcollier
Um, and ah bri.

04:57.31
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Like really heal from it and then it just it went everywhere. Yeah and I was 16 Yeah.

05:01.72
katrinamcollier
Wow, That’s tough. So what happened oh so you’ve already a bit confused about your identity then mum passes right at a really crucial age. Oh my goodness. So what? what.

05:15.79
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah, it wasn’t pretty what I did Um, yeah now.

05:21.52
katrinamcollier
No, no, but it’s it’s survival isn’t it and it’s you don’t know how what you’re doing and I think so has been some of the work that you’ve done now to be looked back at that time and all what what did you do? what happened from the moment you stopped. Yeah.

05:31.49
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And that.

05:34.94
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
You know what’s like really really lovely. What I’ve just been in ausria with my brother. It’s been 23 years that she powers and it was the first time that we talked about her. It was long time coming. It’s been really really like.

05:41.20
katrinamcollier
So sorry yeah, um I.

05:54.90
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
It was It was visceral but it was good to to talk about her a bits. It wasn’t very extensive. How did we experience it? How do we look back at stuff and and that that’s that’s done some good. Yeah.

05:59.26
katrinamcollier
Ah.

06:03.91
katrinamcollier
I.

06:10.24
katrinamcollier
And is that because you’ve been openness we were to fill in the gap yet from when work sent you home basically have you been doing self-work that that has allowed you to therefore have that conversation and feel almost the confidence to have that conversation because it.

06:17.96
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um.

06:26.28
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely so I I started with when I first and stumbled into this block I think I was aren’t 3031

06:27.95
katrinamcollier
Ah, could be quite tough. Can’t it with your siblings If you think they’re shut off as well.

06:41.37
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And I couldn’t like I couldn’t and I was just like you need to go to talk to someone I was like right I need to go to talk to someone so I looked up um coaches because I thought um I’m very much like action driven and I thought.

06:41.45
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

06:52.40
katrinamcollier
Ah.

06:54.56
katrinamcollier
Who.

06:57.28
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
It was it was daunting to go into you know Psychology Plus back then I was still under the impression that you know like I wasn’t damaged through various Traumas as like very strong. Yeah.

07:07.61
katrinamcollier
I wasn’t that bad quick a creature be fine I’m okay I’m not that bad. But.

07:15.97
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, absolutely like look at me I’m I’m alive. Yeah yeah I was you know successful in my professional life and I was like yeah and um and I ah came across ah women’s coach.

07:20.30
katrinamcollier
Look how I’ve achieved like come on. Ah yeah.

07:33.00
katrinamcollier
So.

07:34.97
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And um I was like ok, let’s see so she was this really feminine presence and I was like I was itching to get out of the chair and I was like no, you need to sit there so that that was that was a ah ah moment of.

07:45.44
katrinamcollier
Yes.

07:52.40
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Just go with it and see where it goes and then that’s how we started the the first very much focusing on the work situation. But then obviously you know you you start to open up and then you see like there isn’t two sus 1 That’s you know at home and private and one that’s work. Um.

07:58.30
katrinamcollier
Who.

08:07.56
katrinamcollier
Yeah, it’s funny when you say I think of our work and what we you know we we do on our professional side with the much of this is still my professional side but you know I mean are the the.

08:10.77
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
So that that was ah that was a first step ah starting to.

08:23.62
katrinamcollier
Everyone’s saying Facebook’s my personal space and Linkedin’s might be like almost what you’re saying is like and you can’t they’re all like all one. It’s yeah we are who we are can we go back to the feminine energy though because I think we’re both we’re both similar we probably slightly more in the masculine energy was it.

08:27.55
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, no yeah.

08:35.73
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, oh yeah.

08:41.37
katrinamcollier
Did you enjoy that eventually did she did you kind of ease into your feminine energy to balance it out more or did you always feel like how you were wishing.

08:42.78
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Are.

08:49.26
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, because it was connected to na and namamo I did because because it was it That was a really really tough start and then it really kick into high gear when Ruby appeared um to me suppressing it because.

09:00.68
katrinamcollier
Ah.

09:05.46
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Because that was my mom and my mom passing I I just couldn’t allow it to feel that pain so it was starting off me opening up the idea as opposed to like I had if I identify man with my dad because I was always ah a dad’s girl with the sport and all kind of thing and I was like.

09:07.66
katrinamcollier
And run.

09:25.23
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
No, you need to face the music that you very much not just the nose and the chin. Ah, you have attributes of your mom and that and I think that was it like I need to soften into into being that. Yeah.

09:33.80
katrinamcollier
Yeah, that’s lovely. Yeah, how did she get? How did she get you to do that was there a particular methods that she used or was it just conversation or.

09:50.41
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Conversation and writing. Um, yeah, so that was but yeah, yeah, yeah, um, because yeah, um, you know what it is and it’s also speaking a different language so that’s really interesting.

09:52.62
katrinamcollier
Um, oh having just finished writing a memoir I’d say therapeutic. Yeah yeah.

10:08.46
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Ah, because that allows me to express myself a hungarian for me is very much identifying. Um back then definitely 100% with that person like that’s me and then learning a different language I learned Dutch. Um, when I moved here which was the grownup.

10:08.85
katrinamcollier
Um.

10:14.59
katrinamcollier
And yeah.

10:27.63
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
So that allowed me also to like express the feelings identify the feelings being able to say them you know set some boundaries so that really helped that that aspect of having to change my brain to learn on a third language. Um.

10:31.65
katrinamcollier
And and.

10:41.79
katrinamcollier
Yeah I know I was actually happy you can you speak I was just working that out I nearly managed english amazing. Yeah, so you would write in Hungarian then so when you were were you like free ride.

10:44.91
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
That helped.

10:50.20
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
But but that that was for me that was really really helpful and and back then even if I couldn’t no I was I was writing in English So so that was I I am not very I’m still not very good at expressing.

11:00.20
katrinamcollier
But Journaling or ah, interesting.

11:09.68
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Where I am right now and who I am right now in in Hungarian I’m getting a lot better at it thankfully. But it’s not fully there I have a much easier time in the 2 other languages than I learned.

11:13.16
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

11:21.17
katrinamcollier
I Think as long as it’s out of the body. It’s yeah the reason I smart was that they were talking about because I’ve just been to the Hay House Writers workshop.

11:25.60
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, yeah, that’s the that’s the thing.

11:34.24
katrinamcollier
Talking met Julia Cameron who’s all about the artist’s way which is all about free writing and just writing like with no thought no effort to journal like no just write just pull out a piece of paper and write on it. It’s just so liberating. That’s actually why I smiled and then I do think yeah actually the memoir was quite therapeutic.

11:47.11
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, here.

11:49.49
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

11:51.47
katrinamcollier
But I found one of the things they talked about though was which I thought was really interesting is don’t write from the the wound right from the Scar So if you ever feel like you want to make sure that it’s a scar like you’ve healed.

12:01.32
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

12:05.62
katrinamcollier
You could tell that there were people in the room that they blessed them they were just so emotional was like you’re not quite ready So you’re write you first, you’ll write it but it won’t really be it because you’ll be healing healing healing is just yeah, apparently it helps you heal like it’s twice as fast or something as well. There’s that there was a stat they said on the weekend that I cannot remember.

12:09.50
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah.

12:21.61
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, you know what it it is also when you write you have to sit with it and that’s something that I that I learned with my panic attacks that I had and and I remember the first one I I for one period I didn’t know what it was but I went into a venue as the recruiter to network. Ah.

12:24.58
katrinamcollier
Which was quite amazing. Yeah.

12:40.71
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Kill me now and um it was a Pe pub. Yeah, it was a pet bub and I was like there is the exit I’d like I need to see the Ex Yeah like so that I can go. That’s where it started and then at one point I I got into doing yoga I got into like also like.

12:42.68
katrinamcollier
Um, I still hate networking.

12:52.35
katrinamcollier
And then.

13:00.37
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
I Firmly believe that all the trauma and everything is stored in your body and then I was doing yoga and I had the arts just leave the room now like leave the room now and the idea of man just sit down like the goal is not not to do the pose. The goal is not to leave the room.

13:05.66
katrinamcollier
Definitely.

13:09.74
katrinamcollier
A.

13:18.10
katrinamcollier
And just just.

13:20.50
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And that that’s sitting with it like that allow it to happen. Don’t run away from it. Don’t try to you know like stuff something else in there not to have to feel it.

13:24.76
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, it’s always the the voice that’s telling you to run is like your ego and your soul’s just saying just sit here and just it’s okay, just it’s okay.

13:42.81
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

13:44.66
katrinamcollier
What’s not okay is just stay permanently in that mood that feeling. But for that however, long day doesn’t it like it’s okay to just feel it and.

13:50.98
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah because if you don’t feel it now you’re gonna feel it later. Yeah, ah Ga or ma.

13:58.80
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and then like you said with the body keeping Thek Score with the um which actually a stranger I haven’t read that book but I’ve mentioned many times I know I haven’t read that book but I have read um it didn’t start with you but my father suppressing his anger and getting heart disease and then I’m doing my research for mine and there’s.

14:09.20
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
It’s amazing.

14:15.61
katrinamcollier
Suppress Anger get heart Disease I was like whoa that’s exactlygger what du do like you know and no, but none of us we want to be healthy. We’re living a lot longer. So yeah, so which you’re doing a specific yoga. Did you end up staying during yoga or you managed to stay for one lesson. Ah.

14:25.52
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

14:29.83
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Ah, no I couldn’t I I went out and then I went on and then I went back so that was that was the first time that I felt that and I was like that’s when I became conscious of it like this is what you’re feeling. You know it’s but also to allow yourself to say it’s okay that you went out.

14:34.42
katrinamcollier
A.

14:44.53
katrinamcollier
Um.

14:46.84
katrinamcollier
Yes, yes, it’s I K. Yes.

14:48.51
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Go back? Um, because it’s a journey and yeah and I was through sports and through academic achievements or whatever it was. It was about competition and no failure and then going and learning and just doing it and I was like well just.

14:59.59
katrinamcollier
Um.

15:03.71
katrinamcollier
No failure woof.

15:08.39
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, it’s just because then you were disappointing other people you know like that’s kind of the as a child I kind of like I think from what I remember and that’s I have to like say very specifically I don’t remember that much.

15:12.79
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

15:23.51
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and.

15:27.42
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yet. But that’s how I can imagine like that was that was why was I was ah a really really great hand player. For example I was on the national team for my age category I was playing in the big leagues. You know I was like yeah so that was the thing that I was.

15:34.71
katrinamcollier
And. Well.

15:46.38
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Known for and I that was me and if I failed that that that you know let’s just takes the way you.

15:55.87
katrinamcollier
That’s really hard when you’re so young with the with the memories I found um because I’ve dissociated for my trauma through memory loss. Um, it really is handy having a sister who I can ask occasionally but she dissociates her from her trauma in a different way. So it’s It’s really interesting how we all deal with it.

15:58.57
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

16:08.99
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And.

16:13.54
katrinamcollier
Um, but I did find again through the writing that stuff will come I I haven’t got it all back. My room’s substantially older as well. Um, but the the stuff is wafting up that needs to be healed and released so I have had things come up and I’m like like literism writing and I’ve written Oh Wow I’ve just had this come up like literally.

16:19.91
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

16:31.91
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, edit.

16:32.90
katrinamcollier
Written it like that because it’s been so interesting so you probably will find things start coming up and then you can just like release them and just let that energy out So great.

16:35.37
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

16:39.71
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah that’s that that’s the thing that I find in my journeys is that the first one was really scary and then as you go, you know things that come up and no matter how heavy they are the the knowledge. Like the the first thing that sats within me is ask for help. You’re not alone how on earth are you meant to do this alone like that’s that’s that’s just on like that’s just none post not possible to do life or in your own.

17:01.39
katrinamcollier
Um.

17:06.41
katrinamcollier
And had you had had you thought you couldn’t ask for help before that point.

17:14.21
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, because that was a failure because I was raised like imagine the situation that there is a family with three kids so my older brother me. There’s one and a half years between us and my younger brother is eight years between us and and my mom gets sick and then a very obviously.

17:20.30
katrinamcollier
On her.

17:25.90
katrinamcollier
Right.

17:33.28
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
For a while you know it’s been known, not nobody spoke to us but she’s not going to make it but there is no help and she pauses and there is no help and you and as a family we don’t discuss it so there is like.

17:39.37
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

17:50.86
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Everybody is doing their best to pretend that we can go on and like try to make it work. Well obviously you know it’s becoming a mess but.

18:02.23
katrinamcollier
Don’t ask for help and okay wow. That’s so much to take as a child So when you then got to that point where you’re like I can’t do this alone I do need to ask for help were you scared to ask for it was there a moment of.

18:10.90
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, um, know because I was so far gone that I was like there is no other option I went to a wall and I just slowed into it a bit like that’s.

18:18.37
katrinamcollier
Oh it was just I Must Yeah yeah.

18:27.64
katrinamcollier
Because I found it’s really interesting. A lot of the guests we you know we have this hyper independence That’s come because of our stuff and then there’s this unwillingness to ask for help and then when we do everyone. Everyone’s so lovely. Everyone everyone just helps. There’s never a but we’ve got it in our heads Some can’t house for help is quite. It’s quite interesting.

18:29.14
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah.

18:40.49
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah.

18:46.61
katrinamcollier
Seems everyone’s been on a bit of a journey. But so far that I’ve interviewed not everyone but quite a few.

18:51.39
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah I Also found it a weakness and there was one very profound moment as he’s ah um, he was. He’s still an important person to me for what you know our interactions back then.

18:58.52
katrinamcollier
Me and.

19:03.79
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
But I was following a training and the first night I was there I get that was the same with him as well. My reaction to him was like nope and not doing it. Yeah and then first night I didn’t go down to dinner because I had a panic attack and then the second day we were there and then I think it was.

19:09.75
katrinamcollier
Oh always the thing you need the most.

19:22.90
katrinamcollier
So.

19:23.10
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Around the afternoon maybe or even the third day and then it was a professional training focus on influence and there were like people from big companies, senior people and and then it was just a moment of but why do you feel the need that you can show like.

19:27.56
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

19:42.90
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yourself because I said because I have to be strong and then why do you have to be strong because if I’m not strong then and then you know floodgates open also so interesting because like every like ding ding ding ding ding ding thing. Everyone just started crying was. Such a sincere moments and and what breny brown says like there’s sorry.

20:04.40
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and so oh no I Just going to clarify. What was the training on was it It was it a oh Ah oh wow.

20:10.50
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Oh it was just it was a professional training on influence and I was like I’m going to learn to influence people and it was like no, it’s actually very much about you. But.

20:21.66
katrinamcollier
Yeah, wasn’t even it’s not like you’d gone to a you know retreat or something This was just ah, it didn’t seem scary at all I do notice the but the the resistance again that it’s often when we really need something so your subconscious was aware that this was going to be super helpful.

20:23.50
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, Matt I so yeah.

20:32.70
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

20:35.13
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
E.

20:37.53
katrinamcollier
Um, Banjo is just tuning in in the background just to create a nice vibe. Sorry for everybody. Um you were about to give a brene brown quote about that.

20:43.54
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, now it’s It’s just the idea of of the strength of woulnebird vulnerability and and your authentic self that was kind of like the first one because I was I was really afraid that if I showed weakness.

20:50.85
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, Charlie.

20:57.83
katrinamcollier
So.

21:02.24
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
I’m gonna fall pray you know and I was like oh then yeah, not everybody has rights to my vulnerabilities that but yeah.

21:05.65
katrinamcollier
No, it’s funny and good. It’s different. That’s different because you know you want to? It’s what it wants to be with people you trust, but there’s that also that.

21:19.96
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah.

21:25.27
katrinamcollier
Um, just see how many people have said to me Oh you’re so courageous to write this I don’t feel it because luck I just feel like that I’m okay now like I know what you mean it’s that there is that funny moment where you realize actually being vulnerable is a strength. It’s a gift but it inspires ah people and that’s why I think it’s so important.

21:33.45
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah.

21:39.83
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah.

21:43.82
katrinamcollier
You know we women leaders and I say that like we have followings don’t we we the people that look towards us So it’s like we must just embrace that vulnerability and then people go Oh I can make mistakes. It’s okay, yeah, it’s how you deal with yourself. Those mistakes. It’s.

21:50.75
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then and then you go forward and then there is life and there is like for me, it’s like I’m I’m more in touch with myself I’m more myself so I’m a whole lot calmer I can make space for others you know like.

22:03.33
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah in.

22:10.70
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And then ah for me also a couple of years ago I I stood on stage at social talking about mental health and I talked a bit about myself and that was very daunting I was nervous. Yeah I was really really nervous. Yeah, but then but then it’s.

22:19.95
katrinamcollier
I’m plapping because I know how nervous you are about speaking I think he used to say I’m never doing that.

22:28.79
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Also I’ve never met anyone who hasn’t struggled because that’s the biggest lie that we tell ourselves that we all kind of survive life unscathed and I’m like we’re here with my husband and we already have like ah like a counseling fund for our daughter here. What there’s money.

22:33.19
katrinamcollier
Um, who know.

22:43.41
katrinamcollier
There There is no parenting manual. There is literally no manual I’ve written about that as well like there’s no manual. There certainly wasn’t one back then and there isn’t one now and yeah, it’s you’re doing the best can.

22:47.95
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
We do our Best. No. No yeah, you learn from from your experience and then and then you try to implement like at least I have the idea that maybe we try to focus on a couple of things like you You won’t get everything right? That’s just not going to happen.

23:11.51
katrinamcollier
Um.

23:14.76
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, but you can choose what you focus on. Um there is that intentionality to being a parent I think and that’s that’s something that is interesting I’m not very secure in a lot of things but I always said I feel really I feel.

23:17.70
katrinamcollier
Button.

23:28.73
katrinamcollier
Yes.

23:31.30
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
However, rough our start was I feel really grounded of mother. Yeah.

23:33.20
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yes, and that’s all that they can ask for and I think that also as you go and and by the way the words yet but yet because you’re on a journey. It’s a journey mine has been a twelve year journey and I’m still going I still flare up I still have moments where.

23:46.17
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

23:51.69
katrinamcollier
You know there’s still things to yeah, ask some of the builds that have been working around here. Um, so but you’re still, you’re on that journey. Um, oh I’ve completely lost my train of thought I love it when that happens. But I think oh the the being grounded and I think having the self-compassion as well to know that you are going to make mistakes and that’s okay and then.

23:52.43
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah.

24:08.74
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, absolutely yeah.

24:11.16
katrinamcollier
Your children can learn from that that that kind of calmness of oh well, what can we learn here? What can we do better. How can we do this better and rather than which is what you had as a child like come on on do better and it’s like oh my God it’s different.

24:21.43
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, and what 1 thing that we touched on like the the breaking the the generational cycles like one of the things that we do with ruby’s is we have discussions in front of her. We talk about her feelings she sees we cry. It was really interesting. We had a rough start ruby and me.

24:28.29
katrinamcollier
Oh yes.

24:37.26
katrinamcollier
And.

24:41.33
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
A fairly rough start I was standing in the kitchen at one point and I said to and like I’m I’m like I’m feeling myself going mental. It was looking at but back at it now. It was also a lot of things came together that the profound understanding of I My mom is not here.

24:48.18
katrinamcollier
Button.

24:58.95
katrinamcollier
In yeah.

25:00.79
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Like who am I going to turn to um my grieving of my loss of self because I was completely out to work so that just like she was my new reality and I lost myself fully um and.

25:11.69
katrinamcollier
Um.

25:14.65
katrinamcollier
And.

25:20.50
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
So we were sitting there and that’s where also the the reparation of my relationship with my dad got a bit of start because because I was like I cannot hide anymore like it’s so bad that I cannot put up a front anymore like Michael call was that it’s not going. Well.

25:24.71
katrinamcollier
And.

25:33.60
katrinamcollier
Um.

25:38.25
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

25:38.42
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Sit on a plane and and we were sitting around the table and I was crying and and Ru was already a bit older and then and then and then he said don’t cry you scare ruby I was like no. And like she needs to see how it looks like when a parent is upset and there needs to be space to talk about why.

26:01.10
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and she knows exactly and if she knows why and that she is not responsible then it’s fine. It’s when they don’t know that and they just see you in tears. They think that they’ve particular how old is she or was she at that point.

26:09.10
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah.

26:15.26
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, but she’s not 5

26:20.53
katrinamcollier
Because it was she was around 3 apparently that’s around the age where you feel responsible for any mood. Your parents is in. So if you’re explaining and saying no no darling. It’s me then no, that’s amazing and that complete contrast to what you had with your father and then also him witnessing it I think that’s amazing.

26:27.70
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:39.32
katrinamcollier
But a gift to him. He mightn’t realize that yet. But that was a gift.

26:39.85
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, well it’s interesting because it’s it’s like we can have um, a pretty good discussion sometimes with my dad as Mom I able to express kind of how I feel which is also something that I learned I wasn’t really.

26:48.95
katrinamcollier
And.

26:55.95
katrinamcollier
Um.

26:55.96
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Leaving the idea of expressing Oh that It’s okay to share how I feel like sharing how I feel it’s not going to injure anyone because that’s how I feel so it’s not that’s that’s what it is um I’m pretty good at communicating current sometimes at him.

27:05.53
katrinamcollier
Ah, yeah, oh yeah.

27:13.71
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Like not with at him like this is that I feel. Ah but but he’s also saying like you know, being a grandparent is like it really puts it in perspective of like we should have just.

27:13.73
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah.

27:26.37
katrinamcollier
Um, and.

27:30.34
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Let go of a lot more stuff. Yeah.

27:32.70
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, ah he got there. He got the lesson he got there in the end. So what’s next day you still working on yourself. Are you like I mean obviously you feel feel you actually feel I would say.

27:36.81
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:48.68
katrinamcollier
Completely different from how you felt but but what what are you up to are you study doing particular things or you’re routine or.

27:51.20
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Ah I’m I’m still I’m I’ve reconnected with yoga which is currently like physically painful I haven’t done anything for a while and I’m and I’m open I’m I’m doing in and and young.

28:02.55
katrinamcollier
Which yoga are you doing which joke.

28:10.33
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
I would have loved to go back to hot yoga that was like really my thing but it’s not here. In fact, so I just take what I can um.

28:18.40
katrinamcollier
It’s just a very competitive so that mightn’t be the 1 you need which could be why it’s not available to you sometimes.

28:24.26
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, well yeah, but it’s also it’s also the background of it and I was like but the movements and the hearts that felt really good for me like that that but anyways and I’m and I’m and I’m and currently also listening a lot.

28:31.10
katrinamcollier
Yeah, love that.

28:39.93
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And I mean a phase where I listen to a lot of Gaba Matty Glenn O Doyle I loved her onam but you mentioned it’s like reading the book and then every chapter is like oh it just feels like yes, that’s how I felt and that’s how I feel and.

28:54.66
katrinamcollier
Then.

28:57.86
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Ah, she would say I’m a godam chedah so it it was really really good like we can do her things and um brandny brown Obviously um is just really trying to seek out.

29:04.57
katrinamcollier
Human.

29:13.59
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
And also one part that I haven’t really done a lot of work with it yet is my relationship to food. It’s not healthy. So I’m trying to have a better understanding of of death because I was in a phase two years ago where my brain knew it. But my heart didn’t so I had the intellectual knowledge but it.

29:17.13
katrinamcollier
Good format.

29:28.16
katrinamcollier
And.

29:33.41
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
How you said it but it wasn’t my truth yet kinda if that makes sense and then and then so I’m so I’m starting the journey there but from a different perspective more from the the.

29:34.16
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, I’d like you me? yeah.

29:49.81
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
What’s actually good for you as opposed to lose weight.

29:51.69
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and and being curious about like why you’re drawn to certain foods. Is there an emotion at play when you’re drawn to those foods and all those sorts of things. Well yeah, because it’s it’s another way to numb isn’t it. It’s like a feud addiction’s very real I didn’t really understand it until I recently traveled with someone who has.

29:59.43
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, oh yeah, um.

30:03.32
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, absolutely yeah.

30:10.85
katrinamcollier
Well I knew she had food addiction but I’ve never seen it just at supper. But when we actually traveled together quite well seeing it at play was really interesting and just how tough it can be so it’s um, it’s great if that’s next on the but like the hit but that sounds awful next on the hairlist. But next thing because it is I mean players isn that it’s like.

30:18.80
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah.

30:28.19
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, but that’s what it is absolutely yeah I Genuinely believe that you know once you start the journey. Um, you’re gonna heat those moments when you’re wreck when you’re ready for it because you can’t help someone who doesn’t need.

30:30.82
katrinamcollier
You’ve layered down and that’s the light you’ve got to to keep going. R.

30:44.77
katrinamcollier
Yeah, you can only help yourself and when you’re ready so that I mean that was it I was going to say what your tip for the reader but that’s your tip for the reader the listener that is your tip for the listener is so basically I just going to search you have a tip for the list Don you do.

30:44.84
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Who doesn’t see the need for help. But yeah, so now hopefully we get there.

31:03.19
katrinamcollier
Just you know when you’re ready. But yeah, it is yeah I think you’ll probably go through a few more layers and something or twig and then you’ll be like ah okay, that’s because there will be. There’ll be a correlation. It’s some, but it’s funny having I I haven’t seen you for a while and I mean we didn’t even spend that much time together. The last time I saw you but I can.

31:03.65
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, don’t go out of the way. Yeah.

31:12.37
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, that.

31:22.15
katrinamcollier
See such a shift in you that you are glowing. There’s a definite change in your face and your demeanor from that it is amazing People say to me you like you glow and I’m like yeah I didn’t used to. Ah, it’s like as you heal, you just start.

31:31.94
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, you do? Yeah yeah, you do you do? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s the that’s the thing that the the discovery of yourself and who you were meant to be.

31:38.58
katrinamcollier
And I think that’s what makes it addictive because you just feel so good and you keep just doing more and more and you just feel happier and happier. And yeah, it’s quite nice. Yeah. Yeah, and do you find now when you just churn up as your authentic cell phone that the overwears Buzz Overuse Buzzwords But do you just find people are just like Okay, it’s a.

31:50.95
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
I Think that that has such tremendous joy and peace. Yeah.

32:06.90
katrinamcollier
Ah, find them more accepting. Um.

32:08.53
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah, but at some I think that’s just that’s the thing that was in my head like I I was because how I was my my circumstances in childhood and how I was raised and the the social environment. It’s like we.

32:12.25
katrinamcollier
Through.

32:19.27
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, um.

32:27.40
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Continuously had to figure out how not to disappoint others or how to please others actually and to come out even and and just to be able to say you know what? I’m good as I am and I Once once.

32:30.85
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

32:38.78
katrinamcollier
That’s amazing.

32:40.69
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Once I am then the others also have a better understanding of what they face and what they see and are able to put it in context and they’re like okay that’s you yeah.

32:46.55
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, what a perfect place to end that what a journey you have been on though. That’s that’s that’s a huge journey because you yeah Wow I’m so proud of you that sounds really patronizing. But I am because it’s just that’s huge because it’s such a turnaround I mean I think it’s a bit like um with the women and people Pleasing. You know we’re just raised to please everybody aren’t we and you were raised with another level again and you’ve been out to go I am enough this is me you know I am oh I Love that I Love that if.

33:11.24
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, in.

33:14.70
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, yeah.

33:21.84
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, that’s ah, that’s fine. Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah, um, thank you.

33:24.23
katrinamcollier
People want to connect with you can I just pop your Linkedin info is that the easiest I want to reach out and say oh my god you’re amazing. Yeah, um, thank you for this conversation just so lovely I’m so proud of you again sounds specializing. It’s not meant that way but it’s just because I know how hard it is.

33:41.98
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Um, yeah, and and thank you for for doing this because that’s just what I said you know like like but there always needs to be somebody who’s first and you’re making making space for others.

33:42.92
katrinamcollier
But it’s so possible. It’s just so.

33:58.79
Zsuzsa de Koning-Szabó
Share their stories. So in that that’s a really really crucial thing that you’re doing So thank you very much and also for having me.

34:04.20
katrinamcollier
Oh oh, absolutely Always thank you for that. That’s really kind.