Ep. 22 Breaking The Stigma with Matt Jessop

 

 

Unedited Interview – Breaking The Stigma with Matt Jessop

00:00.67
katrinamcollier
Matt Jessop welcome to Beyond The Damage of Words podcast. Thank you so much for joining me and at five p m when we’re both a bit like ah ah thank you as well. I always think whenever the men speak up, especially I’m very very grateful that you’re doing that so we always just launched straight in here.

00:05.66
Matt Jessop
Lovely to be here and thank you for making the time.

00:19.48
katrinamcollier
So what led you into going and seeking some help or was it a series of things that led you in to going on talk to someone. So.

00:26.17
Matt Jessop
Yeah I think it was a series of things. Um I think subconsciously I’ve known for some time that I was struggling for a variety of of reasons I don’t recall any 1 particular event that kind of sort of led me to go and seek help I think it was more a.

00:32.95
katrinamcollier
Yes.

00:43.65
Matt Jessop
Um, succession of um of of different things I think a little bit of my my wife ah cajoling me or nagging depending on on which term you prefer.

00:43.84
katrinamcollier
Um.

00:53.81
katrinamcollier
Yeah, we we women would just say nagging. We know we’re nagging. We don’t like nagging. We just nag ah cajoling does sound kinder though. Ah.

00:59.23
Matt Jessop
Um, she obviously knows me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely she she knows me well enough to know that I was struggling. So um, she she encouraged me um, had a conversation with ah with a dear friend in the Us had gone through a bit of a messy. Um.

01:09.94
katrinamcollier
Um.

01:18.52
Matt Jessop
Divorce and he said something that stuck with me um, being that um, he’d been told in no uncertain terms that he wouldn’t be much used to his kids and supporting them through the separation if he didn’t first look after himself and.

01:23.81
katrinamcollier
Um.

01:35.68
Matt Jessop
Um, get himself to a to a good place and that that really struck home with me. Um, and I think that.

01:39.10
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, so tough. It’s quite a tough concept as well isn’t it because sometimes we feel like we’re being a bit indulgent or we’re you know, taking care of ourselves as sort of selfish or something but it is exactly what you said. But we cannot care for our families if we don’t care for ourselves first.

01:58.15
Matt Jessop
Ah, hundred percent and I think um as a male as well. I think there is an expectation that you’re the kind of sort of the pillar of the family and the support and therefore for a certain extent for the the rest of the family how many most families we all know that the opposite is true. It’s normally the.

02:06.32
katrinamcollier
M.

02:16.28
Matt Jessop
The woman that is the rock that holds everything together. But um I think there is an expectation that we’re the strong ones and um, um, we don’t necessarily need to look after ourselves first. But absolutely do so yeah I don’t think was one ago.

02:29.10
katrinamcollier
Yeah, so what were when you were having that conversation women you were having that conversation. What were you feeling what I sort of sometimes hear that people feel like they’re sort of like I don’t know glued down or weighed down or they feel blackness like what were you feeling when you.

02:34.20
Matt Jessop
Are.

02:47.99
katrinamcollier
Actually opened up to your friend and I know it was It was a little ah alcoholic ah conversation which is fine. Ah, it’s the best way to open up sometimes isn’t it and then you get such a supportive response you think? ah now I can do that without the alcohol.

02:50.67
Matt Jessop
Um, it’s it’s interesting. Yeah, there was alcohol involved. Absolutely.

03:04.49
katrinamcollier
But what was going on in your like in your body if you were to explain it. That’s a deep question at five o’clock on a monday.

03:06.91
Matt Jessop
Yeah, it’s interesting because I think at at the time I can’t remember exactly we were out for a meal after a conference I think um, um, and at the time So when I did ah eventually seek counseling One of the things that my counsellor highlighted.

03:15.40
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

03:26.27
Matt Jessop
To me was that I had 2 very different personalities in the sense that um, if she asked me about work I’d be upbeat effervescent in my comfort zone and confident and um ah I was in a work environment at the time so I was.

03:28.10
katrinamcollier
Um.

03:35.81
katrinamcollier
And.

03:45.37
Matt Jessop
And I was away from the home and most of the challenges were um, were were home related. So I think probably in that moment I was probably in quite a good place. Um, but obviously the the challenges at home um were always there always in the back of my mind and I and I remember feeling.

03:51.60
katrinamcollier
Yeah, um.

03:59.62
katrinamcollier
And brand.

04:04.33
Matt Jessop
Um, at the time when my friend sort of said this it really resonated um and sort of struck a chord with. Do you know what? that makes so much sense. Um, and then I think we’d probably carried on with the evening and then it was later when I was reflecting on the ah on the conversation of like.

04:09.49
katrinamcollier
Um.

04:15.89
katrinamcollier
They different look different.

04:24.10
Matt Jessop
Yeah, do you know what? that’s that’s so true and I really need to take some action.

04:28.10
katrinamcollier
Um, go to do something.. It’s interesting because I think about at work it can often be which you’ve you’ve expressed in your email to me is sort of it’s the logic side of what you do isn’t it. You. It’s very.. It’s It’s quite controlled and you’re on deadlines and it’s It’s very easy to feel like a sense of achievement whereas actually often when it’s home.. There’s a lot more emotion involved and it’s a lot harder to feel that that impact so I’m not surprised that you have the the two sides to that almost contradict each other almost.

04:43.85
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah.

04:54.54
Matt Jessop
Yeah, very much and control is an interesting I’m not a controller I’m so I’m about as far from being a control freak as you can get but in a work environment I’m able to control and rationalize.

05:00.47
katrinamcollier
Yeah, oh.

05:11.13
Matt Jessop
Um, things and understand what’s what’s going on whereas at home I Think a big part of my challenge is not being able to rationalize understand my men’s by son’s mental health um to rationalize understand why the the.

05:11.48
katrinamcollier
Um.

05:25.31
katrinamcollier
Um.

05:28.97
Matt Jessop
My wife’s physical health issues that she was having at the time. Um, she’s fine now but she went through a long period where um, we didn’t really know what the root cause of the problem was to be able to do it so it felt very much being out of control as opposed to being in control.

05:30.30
katrinamcollier
Yeah, which is so good.

05:43.90
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, um.

05:45.50
Matt Jessop
Um, in a work environment and I confess I would use workers and escape from the issues at home. It was my safe space that I could run to and I would travel a lot and work very long hours because it got me away from having to.

05:59.90
katrinamcollier
Ah.

06:02.34
Matt Jessop
Kind of sort of face. The the challenges that were going on at the time.

06:07.50
katrinamcollier
That’s a really huge confession and and just beautifully honest as well. Um I said that lot I saw that a lot in my home actually to great my childhood home. That’s what dad would do yeah dad worked very long hours pretty well to Escape wasn’t great for us, but it was good for him.

06:16.10
Matt Jessop
Yeah, yeah.

06:24.40
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah.

06:24.66
katrinamcollier
So I can understand what you’re saying um, particularly you know when you eat with your wife’s health issues with that that almost feeling of helplessness isn’t it like I really want to I want I Want to fix you and I can’t fix you I don’t know what’s going on that sit’s quite.

06:30.23
Matt Jessop
Yeah, yeah, and the same with my son as well. So I want to be able to do something but but I don’t know what or how I don’t even understand kind of sort of the fact that he thinks differently to.

06:43.11
katrinamcollier
Um.

06:48.35
katrinamcollier
To you? Yeah, are you happy to share. Are you happy to share what he has because I was surprised it said it was rare when it’s 1 in 1000 people born like this isn’t something like 5 to 10 males are born with this a day.

06:49.88
Matt Jessop
The average person. Um, if you like and therefore trying to ration alive. Yeah sure.

07:05.94
Matt Jessop
Yes, but a lot and go undiagposeed so it’s not something that they check for. So yeah, he um he has ah an extra male chromosome. A syndrome called 47 x y y so um everybody has.

07:07.64
katrinamcollier
It’s like it’s first. It’s very yeah.

07:24.10
Matt Jessop
23 pair and I know a lot more about genetics than I did before it was born here. Yeah um, but everybody has everybody has 23 pairs of chromosomes your twenty third pair um are your sex chromosomes.

07:25.57
katrinamcollier
Yeah, which is cool in a way for the science Brain I got to like that. But. Right.

07:41.91
Matt Jessop
Um, so I have an X and a Y um chromosome You have two X chromosomes and my son has an X and two y chromosomes. Um, it’s ah it’s not a genetic. It’s a pure freak of it’s not passed down I mean it’s a pure kind of.

07:47.42
katrinamcollier
Yep.

07:50.89
katrinamcollier
Into the stair.

07:58.20
katrinamcollier
My I’m just.

08:01.59
Matt Jessop
Accidental thing. Um, you can have extra chromosomes on any one of the 23 pairs down syndrome for example, is an extra chromosome I think it’s on the thirteenth pair I could be wrong with ah so depending which pair the extra chromosome attaches itself to.

08:13.64
katrinamcollier
Ah, interesting. Okay.

08:19.23
Matt Jessop
Means all sorts of different things. Um, and with XYY boys yeah um so they’ve not done a lot of studies into it I’ll tell you about 1 here just a moment. It is.

08:20.96
katrinamcollier
So as to how the behavior and. Which is surprising when it’s so many people that that that was the bit that got me from your email. So I’m immediately googling because obviously Dr Google knows everything but it was the rare but it’s in this many people was the bit that like rare to me is it’s like him 1 in 1000000000 or something you know, not like.

08:37.27
Matt Jessop
Yes.

08:48.60
katrinamcollier
Yeah, so that was quite surprising So hence I was I was um, a bit cheeky and delved into that I usually let people. Yeah.

08:52.49
Matt Jessop
Yeah, yeah, no, um, but yeah, on average boys with an extra malerobe so are four inches taller than their father. So I’m 6 for 3 so he’s a big la he’s six foot 7 he’s speak to type. So um and um.

09:01.20
katrinamcollier
But goodness.

09:10.78
Matt Jessop
Have learning um and behavioral difficulties which absolutely sums him up. Um, he’s 28 now um so it’s plateaued a bit um ten years ago 181920 that was that was the hardest part.

09:13.15
katrinamcollier
Right? right.

09:25.16
katrinamcollier
Um.

09:27.68
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, it’s all yeah.

09:30.15
Matt Jessop
And of course all the the hormonements are rushing through their body through the teenage years. Um, at the time and even without an extra chromosome then obviously teenagers struggle to control their emotions um a vaguely long time ago now. But I vaguely remember came through that phase myself.

09:42.93
katrinamcollier
Yeah, as well. Yeah I don’t know there’s still a lot of teenagers wandering around out there. Um, that’s another conversation for another podcast.

09:49.57
Matt Jessop
Ah, so um, yeah.

09:56.79
katrinamcollier
So when you went. Okay, there’s been this series of things and you spoke to your friend. What did you? then do did you go and speak to someone you mentioned a counselor like what was what was the what helped what didn’t help maybe something didn’t help but.

10:06.55
Matt Jessop
Yeah, so actually went through I went through several different counselors. Um, and the first few were more just talking therapy so somebody sitting there listening and.

10:16.97
katrinamcollier
Um, yep, oh.

10:23.93
Matt Jessop
The opportunity to unburden yourself which was kind of okay and it works for some people and and I’m not knocking it up all. But for me I kind of sort of wasn’t learning anything new from it or moving forward at all and yes, initially.

10:27.33
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

10:38.68
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

10:42.19
Matt Jessop
Kind of first few sessions and opportunity to unbuges Burdenden yourself and you kind of sort of get that that feeling of release in doing so but after a while it was like this isn’t really taking me anywhere and it was ah um, another friend who’s a um, nlp neurolinguistic programming I think it stands for.

10:52.13
katrinamcollier
Forward.

11:01.80
Matt Jessop
Um, practitioner who said to me try sort of more interventionist counseling bit nlp um or um or one of the others. So I tried a different counsellor who was more interventionist who would actually challenge my thinking. Um.

11:02.34
katrinamcollier
Yep, yeah.

11:08.56
katrinamcollier
And.

11:14.75
katrinamcollier
6 and. Yeah.

11:21.45
Matt Jessop
And and and question. Well why? Why do you think like that. Why do you do do you feel that ah and it was that that made me stop and kind of start to re-evaluate my thoughts and my feelings and and those types of things and that for me personally was was really what.

11:28.30
katrinamcollier
Um.

11:36.42
katrinamcollier
This.

11:41.41
Matt Jessop
What made a difference. Um and and up the front the corner. Ah.

11:44.13
katrinamcollier
Yeah, it is quite Amazing. Isn’t it when someone It’s amazing when sorry to interrupt you when someone shows you that I’m so good at that like um, they have to put that on my tombstone Love don’t interrupt. Um, this just I always get so excited. But it is amazing I remember I talk about Michelle Zollli so much when she she showed me that that like you can choose a different thought and it’s like when you so come to that realization and you start going? Why am I thinking that you know I’m sure many who’ve listened to the podcast know I Always think when I’m having a.

12:08.52
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah.

12:18.84
katrinamcollier
Really negative phase I Then suddenly go oh I’m going to think about my dog I will focus on him and I’ll take myself off to something pleasant, but it’s that it’s like a light bulb goes off isn’t it and suddenly it’s like well I can choose what I’m thinking. Oh it’s It’s quite amazing cut. So I’m glad that helps.

12:35.94
Matt Jessop
The I.

12:37.75
katrinamcollier
But I get that feeling of wanting to the motivation to go forward I get that I really get that. Yeah.

12:43.55
Matt Jessop
It definitely did help um and it got to the point where I was in a much better place. Um, and I start um, but more recently I’ve reengaged with dawn.

12:47.77
katrinamcollier
And.

12:58.82
Matt Jessop
My my cancer because after time it becomes harder and harder to kind of sort of self- maintaintain staying in that that good place. Um, so again recently I and all’s gone through and we’re more wife self as a say is all sorted now. So that’s good. Um.

12:59.79
katrinamcollier
Great.

13:05.86
katrinamcollier
And here.

13:17.16
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, what a relief.

13:18.49
Matt Jessop
But Holly still go through good phases and not so and more challenging phases and these other challenging phases recently. So um, yeah I found myself in a space where again I need to um, kind of sort of talk through my feelings and and help to understand and try and as much as is possible rationalize.

13:22.10
katrinamcollier
And.

13:31.81
katrinamcollier
Absolutely.

13:37.58
Matt Jessop
Um, and get back into a into a better play and although I’m better at doing some of that myself I still need the help and support from time to time so we were yeah absolutely.

13:40.19
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

13:47.14
katrinamcollier
Um I I I think it’s crucial because they hold a mirror up to us. You know it’s like ah I I’ve had it. So I’ve mentioned Roderick to you earlier Roderick Lambert so he’s my business coach but he’s gone very much into the health.

13:55.61
Matt Jessop
Yeah, yeah.

14:02.41
katrinamcollier
And he when he was my business coach. He’d like hold a mirror up to me and he’d just say do you know you’re using all this language I’m ah no, but it’s even though I’ve done all of the healing and on my personal stuff even on the business side. There were things that I was doing So I always find that really I think that’s where they’re so powerful ah being able to just.

14:04.30
Matt Jessop
Depth are.

14:18.50
Matt Jessop
Yes.

14:22.32
katrinamcollier
Hold that mirror up and hold you a bit accountable, but it’s also it’s It’s so much peeling layers as well. So you will get through to a point and you’re okay and then you need to shift through another level which is sort of up shifting your healing So that’s great to hear So what else have you done would did you say cbt somewhere.

14:23.19
Matt Jessop
Yes.

14:35.45
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah, technically.

14:39.36
Matt Jessop
Yes, for gaunt dawn. So the the council that worked for me is cbt. Um, so I didn’t go down the Nlp route I went down the cbt route. Um I’m difficult people.

14:40.70
katrinamcollier
Or is that what that is.

14:46.96
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

14:50.79
katrinamcollier
Um, what’s it. What’s this cbt like what’s it like what’s it like the cbt I actually haven’t had it I don’t think of everything I’ve done.

14:58.41
Matt Jessop
Um, um.

15:03.63
Matt Jessop
It’s it’s good. It really worked for me. Um I’m sure different things work for different people and I not kind of sort of knocking any of the other um, kind of sort of variance at all. But um as I say it was um she would.

15:05.48
katrinamcollier
Ah, yeah, written.

15:19.61
Matt Jessop
Sort of question and draw out different circumstances and what was happening flipping between kind of sort of what’s been happening this week what are your raw emotions to the kind of sort of along with term going back into your past. Um, and as I described them she would then.

15:20.10
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

15:31.92
katrinamcollier
Ah, okay.

15:39.46
Matt Jessop
Stop me from time to time and go right? Okay, let’s just probe into that one. Why do you think that and question. Um what I’d said um and um, not could be quite confrontational. Not not in an aggressive way or anything like that. But.

15:44.19
katrinamcollier
Got sir. Yeah, yeah.

15:57.19
katrinamcollier
La la.

15:59.23
Matt Jessop
But not not allowing me to just kind of sort of bluff my way past it and and move on but make sure that yeah I really did kind of sort of ah, be introspective and and look at what I was saying and why I was saying it and the way that I was saying it.

16:03.38
katrinamcollier
Off the hook.

16:13.40
katrinamcollier
Ah, yeah, and and release the emotion. Did you hear Troy on the podcast a few weeks ago he was talking about exactly that that he went to all of these sessions.

16:19.26
Matt Jessop
Um, to really help me understand it.

16:29.68
katrinamcollier
And eventually they went. Okay so can I have the real Troy now and he went oh damn it ah like he was people pleasing. He was saying what he thought they wanted to hear.

16:30.70
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,, but um, and we do I and I do it all day every day and ah work and it’s ah um, it’s kind of sort of I’ve got an agenda and I’m gonna yeah I’m going to in a very polite way of course but kind of sort of go down the path and I’m intending to go down.

16:52.26
katrinamcollier
Um, of course you’re british.

16:55.91
Matt Jessop
Um, and then all of a sudden you find this person in your way going? Oh hang on a minute. Um, but and that was what was great about it. There was ah um and she also did ah I think I mentioned she on my email I’ve never been formally diagnosed with complex ptsd. But.

16:58.97
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

17:08.25
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

17:13.20
Matt Jessop
Um, she did ah an informal assessment and I was way past the the threshold at the um at the time um because of everything that had happened and at home and that kind of helped me sort of understand that. Yeah it’s.

17:19.33
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

17:24.74
katrinamcollier
It’s gone. Yeah.

17:33.58
Matt Jessop
You’re not just kind of sort of being a worseaw or or anything like that. But actually yeah, no you you are struggling here. Um, so that was that was kind of a helpful exercise to go through as well just to put some context around it.

17:38.77
katrinamcollier
Okay, um, yeah yeah I mean that was I I mean I had complex Ptsd from my childhood trauma but you can get it from any repetitive trauma.

17:50.10
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah, yeah.

17:55.80
katrinamcollier
And that’s the difference between it obviously and Pts do is that repetition but you can heal from it. So if you feel like I’m going to live with this forever. You don’t have to if you keep doing the self work. You will get to that point where there’s a lot of ease around it.

17:59.52
Matt Jessop
Yeah.

18:09.54
katrinamcollier
Um, but it was interesting listening to Gabel Marte and I will probably drop this in the podcast quite a lot actually um, a bit cheekily but he was saying that a lot of highly sensitive children which is like 1 in 5 1 in 6 people are born with high sensitivity who even just have stressed parents. Can end up with complex ptsd but it shows is Adhd and that’s what they’re diagnosed with and they’re given a drug because that suits the pharmaceutical compromise so I have this concern all the time when people say they’ve got adhd and I’m listening to the symptoms going.

18:31.48
Matt Jessop
Um, right? Okay, interesting. Yeah yeah.

18:41.86
katrinamcollier
Gosh that sounds just like complex ptsd and you’ve told me you’ve been through that and Hm and then you can like you’ve done go and get help and start easing the symptoms rather than numbing with a but anyway that’s just me having a little side rant.

18:53.61
Matt Jessop
Yeah, the other the interesting part for me is kind of sort of the and I know some of it is putting labels but actually labels sometimes can help in terms of contextualizing um thing but an aspect of the ptsd which I’m I’m sure.

19:05.30
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

19:13.39
Matt Jessop
Um, use in is the different events trigger different behaviors. Um, and um Hollywood come through the front door. Um and within a matter of seconds I was depending on how he was I would either be in.

19:19.00
katrinamcollier
Um, oh yeah.

19:33.24
katrinamcollier
Absolutely hyper vigilant. What’s their mood. Absolutely and.

19:33.30
Matt Jessop
Fight or flight mode defensive. Um, because of previous experiences and all of that kind of things and helping me understand that response and talk myself down from it at times. Was super helpful in terms of moving forward.

19:52.40
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, that’s amazing and just to to really ah gain that awareness like that it’s It’s like a hypervigilance um in that you know you you go on to alert and just when you suddenly realize that.

20:00.38
Matt Jessop
Um, yes, 1

20:07.75
katrinamcollier
But the triggers is really interesting. What I will say is I’ve healed my core wounds so because mine came from child abuse. So I’ve healed that but I can still trigger so you know I’m Sue Ingram will latest to that when we were away last year she said something as a joke and I just did not take it as a joke and I wait too long which is not like me.

20:14.57
Matt Jessop
Yeah, yeah.

20:24.74
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah, yeah.

20:26.47
katrinamcollier
And I’ve known her for years and it was just like that she I thought she was doing what mum used to do which was lying about me and she was just joking and she really was just joking and it all came from heart because she’s this gorgeous and it was like oh but it was over in seconds.

20:32.62
Matt Jessop
Yeah.

20:40.90
katrinamcollier
It was the really quick awareness of whoa hang on rather than it used to be it became days worth of Drama and it’s It’s so good that you’ve got that awareness so you can start.

20:47.80
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah.

20:52.41
Matt Jessop
Absolutely it could.

20:54.26
katrinamcollier
Just yeah, creating a safe space for yourself as well when you’re kind of going into a situation with him sorry I interrupted you again. No do please.

20:59.15
Matt Jessop
Because but one I right now I was in talk the apolog. Um, but 1 of 1 one of my unhelpful behaviors is one of my coping strategies when things got challenging was to was to withdraw.

21:12.60
katrinamcollier
Um.

21:18.32
katrinamcollier
Yeah, ah yeah.

21:19.67
Matt Jessop
Um, and shut down in terms of communicating. Um and and that drove 2 things which kind of perpetuated the problem one I wasn’t communicating so I was making the situation worse with the people around me. Um.

21:23.51
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

21:34.61
katrinamcollier
And.

21:37.31
Matt Jessop
Ah, but also by withdrawing I was withdrawing into my own head and perpetuating my own narrative around what was wrong and all of these kind of things and again making the um, the situation worse So kind of sort of having that fight or flight. Um.

21:42.19
katrinamcollier
Trauma.

21:54.50
Matt Jessop
Reaction and being able to recognize it and ah modify my my behaviors as part of that has definitely made a difference I know I still do from climate Pri mode. So um I’ve still got a long way to go but um.

22:00.97
katrinamcollier
When yeah when you feel yourself. Yeah.

22:10.36
Matt Jessop
Having that kind of sort of awareness definitely helps.

22:13.73
katrinamcollier
There’s probably a difference now like you can now say to your wife I know I’m withdrawing I just need to go and withdraw I will be back almost reassuring her rather than oh gosh. How long’s he going to be gone for. He’s going on go on.

22:16.36
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah.

22:25.94
Matt Jessop
Yeah.

22:27.68
katrinamcollier
Because it is. It’s a very male thing to withdraw I think this is why I’m struggling to get men to speak on the podcast and I’m so grateful is it’s that normal thing to just withdraw and shush and dutch shut down strip up a lip and because that’s not what we need as women we would need the opposite. So it’s but even it’s okay if you kind of give it a timeframe.

22:44.16
Matt Jessop
Exactly and my wife’s perfectly out going. Yeah I was just saying my wife’s particularly outgoing an extra for So it’s she finds it exceptionally frustrating when I withdraw because it’s the complete opposite of her norm. Um, so who were.

22:47.64
katrinamcollier
Sorry.

22:52.58
katrinamcollier
Um.

22:56.26
katrinamcollier
And.

22:59.73
Matt Jessop
Um, it does create tensions from from time to time but part of it is you need that space to a certain extent but um, but doing it too often and too deeply and for too too long.

23:01.94
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

23:09.10
katrinamcollier
Um.

23:14.39
katrinamcollier
Exactly Yeah, which is great isn’t it that that that’s what you got out of the session like even just that but there’ll be I’m sure there’s so much more I think that realization of um.

23:15.29
Matt Jessop
Is destructive and recognizing that and being able to pull myself out of it.

23:29.87
katrinamcollier
Understanding how you’re reacting and why you’re reacting that way as well like I just I wish there was more information around about complex Ptsd. There’s a few people popping up that are being very vocal about it which is great So give it time because there’s plenty of it around.

23:31.64
Matt Jessop
Yeah.

23:42.60
Matt Jessop
Yeah, oh together? Yeah yeah, oh absolutely absolutely um and then and then the other thing that sort of learning for me which I’ve learned to recognize everything is not through anybody kind of sort of telling me but just Paul.

23:46.64
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:58.41
katrinamcollier
M.

23:58.62
Matt Jessop
Kind of sort of working it out for myself is um, the importance of sleep. Um, so unfortunately yeah, one of my self-medication strategies was to comfort eat and I still do um so.

24:02.77
katrinamcollier
Oh yeah.

24:13.61
katrinamcollier
And.

24:16.70
Matt Jessop
Um, weight has then led to sleep Apnea Um, and the quality of my sleep being poor but um and I still struggle with that now I have a cpac machine but um I do need to lose weight and that would help with that situation. Um, but recognizing.

24:19.59
katrinamcollier
Oh dear and.

24:35.77
Matt Jessop
When I’m tired um and how different how much better I deal with situations when I’m not tired to when I am tired um and the importance of sleep and trying to do what I can to improve my sleep.

24:36.26
katrinamcollier
Oh.

24:44.10
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, and then of course if you’re comfort eating if you’re comfort eatingating you’re probably going for the sugary sweets stuff as yep, which is keeping you awake, especially around 3

24:56.41
Matt Jessop
Yep.

25:01.15
katrinamcollier
That’s when it begin to get me which is when we then go into a worrying zone overthinking like yeah, it’s yeah, it’s a it’s a vicious vicious cycle. Um, but I.

25:08.24
Matt Jessop
Yes, yeah, definitely and difficult to break.

25:14.53
katrinamcollier
Yeah, but I think it’s interesting because I think if you keep continuing on that path and then that really helps you with the self-worth you will stop reaching for the comfort eating. Um, but yeah I mean I have I would call it food addiction probably more than um and it’s it’s a toughie.

25:31.98
katrinamcollier
It’s it’s quite and it’s definitely one of um I’ve put the in my memoir I put the traumary and it’s quite interesting because it is one of the addictions food addiction and it’s It’s a what it is a way of yeah so self smoothothing.

25:43.90
Matt Jessop
Um, but my wife’s given me a a very good role role model for breaking that. So in the last year she’s lost fivestone and um, exercisding regularly and.

25:56.53
katrinamcollier
Wowsers good for her.

26:00.27
Matt Jessop
Um, has done fantastically Well very proud of her. Um, so she’s.

26:01.67
katrinamcollier
What was the switch was it with did she saw out something like up here that helped sorry for the podcast I’m pointing at my head keep forgetting this a podcast here as well. But it was a a mental thing as well. Not just ah oh I’m going to calorie Depriv or whatever awful. Thing that is involved.

26:21.12
Matt Jessop
It was um yeah, it was actually um, a flight to America 9 hours on a plane um problems with her back and her hips and being in a lot of discomfort. Um and her brother lives just north of Seattle.

26:32.18
katrinamcollier
Ah, can.

26:37.15
Matt Jessop
So it was like if I don’t sort something out sort myself out. Potentially I’m not going to be able to go and see my brother and she’s actually off to see her brother in in a few weeks which is which is great and it was it was that one particular was well her flight to.

26:37.40
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, um.

26:45.90
katrinamcollier
Amazing.

26:51.37
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

26:53.52
Matt Jessop
Florida and back again where she really really struggled which was the trigger for her to go no I’ve got to sort this out now. So um, yeah, she’s done fantastically well um, but shown me a path of yeah it can be done and you can break the cycle and um ah make a difference.

26:59.95
katrinamcollier
That’s amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean she’s certainly you’ve got to have the reason so she’s had a strong reason but with yours I feel like there is that underlying cause and I know there’s stuff which we won’t go into.

27:12.72
Matt Jessop
Yeah, me, yeah.

27:21.40
katrinamcollier
But there is other stuff and I think that once you start healing that then it will just be easier as well. It is It is mostly food. That’s the really interesting thing. We often think oh we have to exercise exercise exercise is very important particular is we older but actually most of it is the food. Um and just change changes.

27:27.24
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah, definitely And and.

27:36.88
Matt Jessop
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent a hundred

27:40.90
katrinamcollier
Yeah, but there are also ways to do it without feeling hungry. Believe it or not which is important to.

27:46.45
Matt Jessop
And that the the the extra step for me which is kind of so tied into what we were talking about earlier which which I know but I haven’t quite cracked it yet. Um is work is by comfort zone.

27:55.41
katrinamcollier
Um.

28:02.51
Matt Jessop
But it also becomes my excuse for not having time to do the exercise which is total rubbish really? um, it’s not really a good excuse but I use it as an excuse. Ah oh I’ve got too too much work to do I haven’t got time to go for a walk or ah, do these kind of things and.

28:05.64
katrinamcollier
Um, ah.

28:07.76
katrinamcollier
On.

28:19.84
Matt Jessop
That’s the bit that I need to kind of sort of break in my head to get me on the on the right path.

28:20.66
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah, ah I’m going to take you straight back to the trauma tree because it is work addiction is very real. Ah exercise addiction is also one.

28:28.33
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah I’ll absent it. Yeah.

28:33.32
katrinamcollier
So my ex-husband exercise addiction. So like he is Stythhan and um, forever exercising. But that’s fills a void for him. But it’s like it’s another destruction. Um, so actually it’s all about balance while you’re saying that I’m just thinking of the deadlines I’ve got coming up and must make sure I keep exercising.

28:41.30
Matt Jessop
Yeah.

28:50.19
Matt Jessop
Um.

28:51.61
katrinamcollier
Ah, the self-impose deadline I’ve just given myself. Ah, it’s like oh didn’t think that through what about the exercise because I know I’m like you. It’ll be the first thing it gets thrown out but actually it’s it’s funny. Just even just even doing it from a strength point of view. It’s just like.

28:59.85
Matt Jessop
Yes.

29:07.88
katrinamcollier
I Bet your wife says that as well just feeling strong again is really quite exciting. It really does not so much the addiction but just that feeling of strong. So what is what was your.

29:10.43
Matt Jessop
Yes, yeah, yeah. Feeling a strong and and feeling of taking back control of her of her life as well as a real kind of sort of positive drug if you like in its own right? That’s ah, that’s been been really good for her. No none at all.

29:22.51
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, still have no problem on that flight this time and also Seattle’s quite outdoorsy city as well. So she’ll be able to walk around Seattle really easily as well. It’s it’s.

29:33.90
Matt Jessop
Should be planned. Yeah, yeah, and our brother’s very outdoors here I was just saying a brother’s very outdoorsy as well. So they’ll be out of exercising and walking the dog when they’re out there and all of those good things. So yeah, no.

29:40.30
katrinamcollier
Ah, when’s she going not in this not in the cold I hope sorry sorry miss that.

29:46.32
katrinamcollier
Yeah, that’s good I have seen some hysterical photos of Seattle in the snow. It’s not so great, but there’s just lots of people sliding downhills.

29:54.56
Matt Jessop
She’s very much looking forward to it.

30:04.70
katrinamcollier
So I hope she’s not going when it’s like that. That’s for sure.

30:05.00
Matt Jessop
I should ah I should be jealous because I’m right down on the South Coast so um I ah can’t remember the last time we had snow down here of any significance and I really miss it so it was ah it always snowed in my childhood and we don’t seem to get it these days down here on the coast. So um.

30:12.48
katrinamcollier
Yep.

30:16.34
katrinamcollier
Yeah, no global warming. Yeah I think we had like a smattering the other day here in London but it was like yeah, nothing not like you used to have.

30:23.75
Matt Jessop
Um, I’ll I’ll be jealous if it snows while she’s out there.

30:28.65
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah, yeah.

30:34.35
katrinamcollier
So if you were to leave the listener with like a final thought or a final words. What? what would they be for anyone that’s listening or or even for yourself What what’s what’s next. What do you plan to do besides the weight thing.

30:47.53
Matt Jessop
Yeah I mean I think to the the spirit of the the podcast I mean if if you’re thinking about breaking the cycle and doing something. Do it you you never regret it. Um, and.

30:58.70
katrinamcollier
And.

31:01.69
Matt Jessop
Could be different things for different people or the are the right way forward, but just do something um and break the cycle and there’s no no shame in asking for help and and seeking help whatsoever. Um, but also again it.

31:05.54
katrinamcollier
Ah.

31:18.18
Matt Jessop
Like me at the moment if you’ve done it in the past and it helped then get back to it. Um, and so I’m sure you know better than either. It’s ah it’s It’s a lifelong journey. Um that you keep need to keep feeding it and moving forward.

31:22.29
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

31:29.49
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that’s excellent advice. Yeah yeah, and I also love that you you tried something, you’re like me it wasn’t for me. But then you tried something else and you tried you know you didn’t.

31:37.80
Matt Jessop
So yeah, if you haven’t done it. Do it if you need to do it again. Do it again.

31:49.32
katrinamcollier
And sometimes people feel like they can’t do that and you should because I’ve tried lots of things and some gone and others are like oh my gosh I Love this and and you’re exactly right? It’s what suits that person. It’s we’re all so different aren’t we find the person with the therapy or whatever the healing modality that helps you.

31:51.69
Matt Jessop
Yeah, that’s a.

31:58.45
Matt Jessop
Um, yes, and.

32:07.32
Matt Jessop
And I mean I think as I mentioned the trigger for me was was talking to friends and colleagues and um getting their ideas and input I mean if it wasn’t for 1 friend who said well try something interventionist. Um, and if it wasn’t for my conversation with my.

32:09.13
katrinamcollier
As well. So if it um.

32:23.11
katrinamcollier
Um, and.

32:25.94
Matt Jessop
My colleague originally in America um, that have been kind of sort of the original seedar at all. So if you’re not talking to people just informally and kind of sort of helping you shape. What is the right way forward in in your mind. So don’t be afraid to have those conversations. The 1 thing I have learned.

32:35.31
katrinamcollier
And.

32:42.26
katrinamcollier
I.

32:45.13
Matt Jessop
Um, ah 1 thing I’ve I’ve never had a problem with is kind of sort of talking about my son or my wife to to other people and and that has always helped um and the 1 thing that I have learned through talking to people is.

32:53.53
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

33:03.36
Matt Jessop
Number of people that have all different challenges but relatable challenges that that they’re going through I think it’s so easy to fall into the trap or kind of sort of real. There’s not many of us out there that are struggling in the way that I’m struggling or whatever it it might be and that’s just.

33:05.47
katrinamcollier
Stuff.

33:20.95
Matt Jessop
Couldn’t be further from Jim.

33:21.22
katrinamcollier
It’s not true. Yeah Ian Pedigree has a beautiful question and I know that I saw in your email you wrote that someone actually asked you how you were um, his question is how are you today and he’s like ask people? How are you today.

33:28.75
Matt Jessop
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:36.74
katrinamcollier
And it’s like it’s such a powerful question and then people can’t really fob it off either? Yeah and it’s amazing. Um Matt just Matt if people want to get in touch with you shall I put your Linkedin is that the easiest if someone wanted to get in touch. Um, but thank you I think you’re so right? and and you.

33:37.41
Matt Jessop
Oh completely craving? Yeah group. Yeah great question. Um, please do yeah pressure. Yeah, coming to? yeah.

33:56.29
katrinamcollier
Bravely spoken up on this podcast and I think that’s it isn’t it just speak up. Talk to people I think you’re so right? it’s there’s plenty of people having stuff. So oh thank you? So thank you so much I’m so grateful for your time. Welcome.

34:00.90
Matt Jessop
Yeah, hundred percent yes absolutely I I think you no absolute pleasure.