Ep. 24: Your Inner Dialogue with Kim Lokenberg

 

Unedited Transcript: Inner Dialogue with Kim Lokenberg

00:00.84
katrinamcollier
Kim Lockenberg a welcome to Beyond The Damage of Words podcast. So glorious to see your face because we haven’t spoken in a couple of years which is shocking. How did that happen a year in a bit. How did that happen 2020 s I you.

00:02.78
Kim Lokenberg
Thank you, thank you? But well a couple of a couple is a little a little bit too much but at least at least a year I don’t know covid was done covid was done.

00:18.52
katrinamcollier
But happened yes because you went my mastermind. Thank you that saved me what a horrid time I don’t want to think back to not that you being the mastermind I mean the 2020 s they’ve just been roll a roller coaster anyway, tell me we launched straight in on this podcast. What.

00:19.46
Kim Lokenberg
We talked to London during covid.

00:27.62
Kim Lokenberg
No, ah.

00:30.10
Kim Lokenberg
Exactly.

00:35.64
katrinamcollier
What happened how did you end up seeking help what prompted you to get some help and what did you do and spill the beans. Basically I know back in 1970 no

00:42.30
Kim Lokenberg
Well, where do I start? No. So so no because well that was actually so well around that point I was Born. No. So actually the first time I ran Into. Ah. I was actually sent by my my specialist so I had cancer as a child I was 2 Um and it was a very rare form of children’s cancer so I had it at my um private parts. Let’s say um.

01:00.16
katrinamcollier
Um, ah.

01:02.54
katrinamcollier
Oh. I.

01:11.18
Kim Lokenberg
And when I was impurely like 1617 I was completely all over the place and my specialist in the hospital. My oncologist said like this is not good. You survive. There’s nothing going on with you just you need to figure out how this is your life.

01:14.80
katrinamcollier
Yeah, ah.

01:30.28
Kim Lokenberg
And um I felt really guilty that I survived and other kids didn’t and I was healthy so I went that was my first. Yes, so well. Yeah when I was seventeen I went to a psychologist who was specialized in children with cancer.

01:33.82
katrinamcollier
Ah, that’s huge to carry as a toddler that like just in.

01:49.88
Kim Lokenberg
So that actually gave me a place where I was like it’s okay that I survived. It’s okay to but I can tell you the response from my friends was like you going to a psychologist. You’re not crazy.

01:55.15
katrinamcollier
Yeah, um.

02:01.82
katrinamcollier
And Bloody stigma.

02:05.87
Kim Lokenberg
Why would why would you go to psychologists you’re 17 There’s nothing wrong with you like because I was really open about it like I have to go to Amsterdam which is about a 2 hour train ride every week to speak to this woman so that was actually my first time and well. Ah.

02:15.60
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

02:22.18
katrinamcollier
Interesting that stigma isn’t it I had ah Matt Jessup’s been on talking about that same thing but you’re not crazy I was like well I didn’t say I was I just don’t feel great I want to feel better. Something’s wrong I want to feel right? like.

02:31.16
Kim Lokenberg
Know No exactly I was I was running into walls and um so it gave me a really good insight What my life had been up so far but well you know me quite well so I was very strict like okay.

02:43.60
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

02:48.39
Kim Lokenberg
So I’m going to therapists and after about 2 years I was like yeah we’re done like now I’m safe for the rest of my life I’m going to be happy for the rest of my life that was a big bummer that was a big bum me to find out that’s.

02:57.15
katrinamcollier
Ah, ah ah, what was it like though. Yeah when you realized actually no damn it I could go back occasionally. But what was it. They’re there to continue as we get in our way to help us.

03:06.72
Kim Lokenberg
Ah, yes.

03:12.98
katrinamcollier
But what was it like at 17 like that did you feel like scared to open up or actually you were quite confident to talk to this person or.

03:19.18
Kim Lokenberg
Well for me, it was actually it was eye openingen because it was someone who actually knew people who were in the same situation as me I never talked to someone who was a survivor which is the the name in the netherlands for for for children who survived.

03:33.14
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

03:37.79
Kim Lokenberg
Cancer and so it was it was like coming home like it was okay to be sad about it. It was okay to be scared and I already knew that I was a bit different because when I was going to school the first few years in primary school.

03:42.48
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

03:56.40
Kim Lokenberg
I Had to go back to the hospital every other few months and then every other year and every so I was always but lucky for me, my parents were really open about it. So everybody who knows me from when I was young knew I had cancer so there was no stigma around it.

04:06.29
katrinamcollier
No.

04:13.00
katrinamcollier
Yeah, which is so good because that that tendency to clam up and hide it and not and actually even at that time because we’re similar ages aren’t we as well. There was a lot more clamming up than there is now.

04:14.58
Kim Lokenberg
In our village or in our town or so.

04:27.95
Kim Lokenberg
Exactly ah I was I was diagnosed in 75 so my my parents actually lost 60% of their friends because of me which was like yeah because it was the big. Well the big no because it.

04:32.86
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

04:37.70
katrinamcollier
I Obviously weren’t friends.

04:43.34
Kim Lokenberg
Well I don’t know how you say it in english but in in Dutch it’s the whole the cast of the big c it would be in english so but I I only found out that that that that was happening in in that time and age when I was about 15 because for us it was all normal.

04:47.17
katrinamcollier
A big say here. Oh my gosh.

04:57.20
katrinamcollier
Ah, yeah.

05:01.24
Kim Lokenberg
Everybody even my my brothers still had their friends over in our house even though I was on chemo so at the in that sense we already opened up to other people that it’s okay to be Ill or that it’s okay to go through therapy my mom. My mom actually went started.

05:07.48
katrinamcollier
I Yeah, that’s amazing. Yeah, um, yeah, interesting. Interesting.

05:20.99
Kim Lokenberg
To do therapy herself different kinds of therapy and turned into a therapist when I was 7 Yeah.

05:21.90
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing isn’t it. So maybe that’s what inspired her in and so if you hadn’t had it. She wouldn’t have found her calling because she loves it doesn’t she say oh wow.

05:33.54
Kim Lokenberg
She loves it I mean she’s she just turned 84 in December and she’s still practicing. She’s still practicing. Not not like commercially anymore but she still has a bad like 6 clients and some of them already for over 40 years

05:40.82
katrinamcollier
Ah.

05:47.99
katrinamcollier
Yeah, and and you kind of like you don’t have to retire when you do something like that I have no plans on retiring I Want to slide into my grave having finished like a living to the end. Yeah, why would you and you’re helping people.

05:54.82
Kim Lokenberg
If you’re enjoying what you do? Yeah no, but if you enjoy what you’re doing. Why would you? Why would you retire exactly? yeah.

06:06.88
katrinamcollier
Quite amazing. Isn’t it. So if I can bring up something you said before you came on because I just think this is really interesting as well through that So as open as they were though we we had a conversation about your your brother’s got to be brothers and you got to be a girl.

06:21.50
Kim Lokenberg
Oh yeah, definitely if I would go to my dad’s my parents divorced when well split up when I was about 6 if I would visit my dad. Oh it was the best decision they ever made. Seriously oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

06:26.77
katrinamcollier
Yeah, um, oh gosh Wow I know but still still a lot of change in your childhood in those formulaative years. Yeah I mean they’ve obviously done a great job of.

06:40.62
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah notes.

06:42.85
katrinamcollier
Communicating openly with you but still a lot of change.

06:44.90
Kim Lokenberg
Yes, so I was in hospital for over a year then I came back and then within 2 3 years they split up but getting back to the story. So when I would visit my dad over the weekends I had to wear a skirt or a dress.

06:53.29
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

07:02.23
Kim Lokenberg
Not from my mom. My mom is like hey dress. However, you want to, but your dad demands you’re wearing a dress or a skirt.

07:09.90
katrinamcollier
It’s so funny I just looked at a photo of me from the seventy s it happens to be sitting here and just take what am I wearing and wearing trousers I wearing jeans. Ah.

07:14.27
Kim Lokenberg
On the other hand on the other hand though on the other hand, my dad is 90 while he’s he’s trying that.

07:19.21
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, no, but my dad passed in early Twenty Twenty Twenty two at 92 so we similar similar but still dad wouldn’t have made me wear skirts igie hate short hair. He hates my short hair. But.

07:24.94
Kim Lokenberg
Yes I Oh yeah, my dad was very old fashioned. Well oh yeah, well he still is budd. He’s well my dad hardly recognizes me. So so like it’s like where’s gimmi. Yeah, like I’m here. Oh yeah.

07:38.54
katrinamcollier
Ah, um.

07:43.44
katrinamcollier
Ah.

07:44.16
Kim Lokenberg
Ah, you are you are and none is like oh he’s crying that I’m there but um, no, no, but it’s yeah, no, so he’s he was very typical.

07:46.18
katrinamcollier
Oh, but anyway, so so how did it feel when you were having to wear a skirt and you’re having to wear like be a girl I mean you’re like me a bit of a tomboy at you. So what was it like that.

07:57.63
Kim Lokenberg
It was so it was just the system so I was just following the system because and and and this is yeah so I grew up in a hospital I mean I was two years old when I came in and I was.

08:04.35
katrinamcollier
And.

08:16.99
Kim Lokenberg
In that period of time I was at home quite often, but not all the time So and in Hospitals there’s there’s this structure So it’s in the morning you go to your bath and you get your medication that you go to bed. It’s not that ah that I remember everything but I remember like spots and blanks like oh yeah, that’s.

08:20.24
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

08:35.10
katrinamcollier
Structures. Yeah I bet if you smelt um the smell you’d be straight back there. Oh yeah.

08:36.65
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah I can still draw at the hospital and Bloody blay blah. But so for me I Follow the ah when I Yeah yeah, no and I love and so I love the smell of hospitals. It’s really.

08:48.81
katrinamcollier
Oh you must have been very nurtured there then.

08:52.28
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, and I said well in in a month I go back to the hospital for some checkups. But I love it there then my husband doesn’t like hospitals that much but he goes with me and he’s like I don’t understand why you like this? What’s kind of my second home. But so for me that that was just structured.

08:56.23
katrinamcollier
So.

09:05.14
katrinamcollier
Yeah, makes sense.

09:11.59
Kim Lokenberg
How it was and when I was with my mom I could wear whatever I had I was ah it be lunch strong all the time I went to to to school with like my pony tiils like this.

09:13.48
katrinamcollier
Um.

09:22.87
katrinamcollier
Ah, so how did that impact your identity then if you.

09:25.41
Kim Lokenberg
Well to be funny and fair I didn’t think it impacted my life as much as the past year so the past year and lucky for us. It’s it’s more and more normal to talk about your mental health or.

09:34.25
katrinamcollier
Who.

09:41.62
katrinamcollier
Button 1

09:44.66
Kim Lokenberg
Um, what you’re going through or how you feel and yeah, as with my mom I was her um best bunny for a lot of years but um, so so I’m quite spiritual and I was like I don’t know something’s going on and.

09:46.27
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

09:58.50
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah.

10:04.29
Kim Lokenberg
What I found out now is that I was so structured in social acknowledgement like like this is how everybody expecting me to act expecting me to wear so I did create my own identity on how I dress and how I am but.

10:09.10
katrinamcollier
And.

10:17.89
katrinamcollier
Um, how you should be but not who you were.

10:24.59
Kim Lokenberg
Ah, well, ah, well said that that’s where I’m still working on like okay this is definitely who I am but a lot of things were were taught like how to ah I don’t like big crowds of people but I was start to be there. So like.

10:27.38
katrinamcollier
No.

10:33.97
katrinamcollier
Yes, yes. And.

10:42.82
Kim Lokenberg
And you just behave and as a child I would always cover myself with my mom’s skirt I was always wondering about it I was always just scared for the doctor or I was just scared of other people now I know that I mean I’ve been taught to step out in the open and to be who I am or who I was.

10:49.21
katrinamcollier
Ah.

11:00.61
katrinamcollier
So yeah, extravert not low. Yeah I know Yeah, but it’s funny because.

11:02.75
Kim Lokenberg
But to be um, outgoing to be friendly to be extrovert and I’m not a very big extrovert to be honest, a lot a lot of people think so but you know be a little bit better. But like if you would ask in general people say like that’s such an outgoing girl like nope. Not.

11:23.19
katrinamcollier
It’s funny because and the and the whole world of work is set up for extroverts isn’t it and because before we again before you came on you said like and and and I think of you when I think of us we’re we’re at the bar you know we’re drinking and carry on. But.

11:25.64
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah.

11:36.82
katrinamcollier
Both of us are stepping into our extroversion and actually because we’re both highly sensitive. Actually the last thing we want to do is walk into that environment for too long like I can do it for a period of time but most there might yeah who.

11:46.14
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, and it’s it’s also depending and also it’s depending on what is the reason or who I mean if if if we would go to 1 of our conferences where we we normally would meet and we would meet up with certain people I would go.

11:54.73
katrinamcollier
Who.

12:01.75
katrinamcollier
Yeah, absolutely yeah when it’s your tribe and you love them. It’s very different energy compared to that. Yeah.

12:04.99
Kim Lokenberg
Two days in a row I don’t care if I just get to see them again or but if there’s a exactly and it’s it’s also feeling like is this energy. Okay for me right now or.

12:20.67
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:22.68
Kim Lokenberg
And of course I have my tricks nobody will notice at that point but still what if they would notice. That’s just me I’m here because I’m the host of this thing but now I’m going home I put you in this bar have fun see you tomorrow I’m going off to bed.

12:40.46
katrinamcollier
I always they always killed me I think with them sourcecons the one I really remember absolutely dying afterwards because I’d been full extrovert for like two and a half days or something and I went into a hotel room and I didn’t come out for 24 hours oh well I got food but other than that I just.

12:49.13
Kim Lokenberg
Thank you.

12:54.86
Kim Lokenberg
I cut food.

12:57.72
katrinamcollier
I Don’t want to talk to anyone I don’t wanna see anyone I’m just getting food and other than that I was exhausted and that’s that but people do have that perception isn’t it when they see particularly because they would see us around people that we know and love and therefore we do. It’s easier to be on that extreme.

13:02.90
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah.

13:12.81
Kim Lokenberg
Exactly but that’s also the nice trick of course because if you’re with your friends and you’re you’re being there and it’s what with sourcecon last time in Amsterdam it’s my hometown same with with sosu. It’s my hometown. So I know the area if I don’t feel like it.

13:16.40
katrinamcollier
Yeah, so.

13:25.57
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, exactly.

13:32.74
Kim Lokenberg
I’ll just go for a walk outside or have lunch somewhere else. So and yeah I’m with a lot of friends so people look up to you like they do know such so many people? Yeah, but they come to me because I’m already there and then when we.

13:33.18
katrinamcollier
Exactly.

13:41.90
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:50.39
Kim Lokenberg
Go abroad to other stuff I always look up the people I love and who are my friends and then it goes from there but also nobody you remember? well you know this same as me if you go to a conference or you go to certain events where either you want to go or you have to go to.

13:53.80
katrinamcollier
Yeah, find them? Yeah yeah. So.

14:09.35
Kim Lokenberg
You prepare at least I prepare I do my exercises be in my zone and yeah, if if it if the vibe’s good then I still have a lot of energy after two days if the vibe is a little bit like oh then I’m gone.

14:09.69
katrinamcollier
And yeah.

14:20.38
katrinamcollier
Yeah I yeah I must admit, one of the big ones I learn and I chose take we we chatted a lot before we came lot. Ah rest start hit record. We should have hit record earlier. Um, ah but I was saying one of the ones I learned from Isabelle Gatherer who’s also been a guest just recently. Um, was the the white light and the golden light and if I don’t clear my light so I just have a shower in white lights I’m just clearing off every everyone this energy and if I don’t wrap up in that golden light before I go near anybody these days I can really feel it and I think it’s interesting the more that you become energy aware.

14:38.71
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, yeah.

14:54.99
katrinamcollier
Ah, Elizabeth Prue calls it energy responsible which I love the more you become aware of that. Yeah isn’t it the more you like I really do want to just energetically because we’re all energetic beings even the scientists will agree with that. So yeah.

14:58.21
Kim Lokenberg
Ah, that’s a really good one.

15:04.29
Kim Lokenberg
But even if you look at the phrase I’m cocooning which obviously was because of I think the cocoon bats But what I do if I a little bit out of touch I go a lot of people go with a blanket on their couch right.

15:23.19
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

15:24.10
Kim Lokenberg
But if you do it in a certain way. It’s like really mal yeah that also but it’s you go in? Yeah, but it’s feel safe I’m like how you do with babies like when they get born you yeah, it’s swaddle. Yeah, something like that. Well yeah know I don’t know either. But.

15:26.54
katrinamcollier
Go in wrap yourself up? Yeah yeah, yeah, swats swat swaddle swaddle. So at as me hasn’t had children that thing. Yeah.

15:43.73
Kim Lokenberg
So if I did that but that yeah so I wrap myself up really tightly and then within an hour my energy levels go up says it’s really for me. That’s so important. Oh yeah I can get really quiet.

15:44.92
katrinamcollier
You wrap them up tightly. Ah, yeah, yeah, so you’re also going quiet as Well. So How were you when you first got quiet. And you went still. How are you with the internal dialogue because we you know we do know that we have ah with our gifs. We have a lot of internal Dialogue. So How were you the first because some people are really scared to get be still and I can’t think how many times this has come up on this podcast.

16:06.96
Kim Lokenberg
Oh so her.

16:16.63
Kim Lokenberg
So it’s so funny that you’re asking this right now because when I was young and we still lived in our first house there was this little window up in the in the wall and I would climb in there and make it and and hung a cut a curtain.

16:28.18
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah.

16:33.72
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:35.31
Kim Lokenberg
Outside and I just was folding up in there and put some fairy tales on our music I love music already by then but and I would have hourly conversations with myself I would just talk to like or to the ducks outside I mean we were We were.

16:38.90
katrinamcollier
Oh yeah.

16:46.57
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

16:54.26
Kim Lokenberg
Having a lot of animals I had a duck I had a crow I had another crow another duck and of course the dogs and cats and everything else but I would talk to everything which well my dog actually does sometimes but not not necessarily. Yeah, no.

17:03.64
katrinamcollier
That an answer back. It’s awesome.

17:09.97
katrinamcollier
I’m just Banjo’s got very vocal at like four a M these days. But anyway yeah, nice. Ah.

17:11.86
Kim Lokenberg
Yet not with language. Oh nice, nice good. You go Badger now. So it’s but no, that’s it for me. Um, of course I you took internally and then it’s in your mind but I would have like um.

17:26.91
katrinamcollier
Um, so.

17:31.00
Kim Lokenberg
When I would cycle home from school. Yeah I’m Dutch we cycle. We don’t take buses or trains. We just cycle. Oh but no I think honestly, especially especially in Amsterdam I mean I need seriously tourists need to have licenses right now.

17:32.55
katrinamcollier
I know it’s terrifying when you’re a tourist there like it’s like yeah like oh my god don’t step out. Dont step out look look every way up. Ah yeah, ah it because so. So for anyone who’s living in England or Australia that it’s the other side as well. So the what you’re on the other side. Let’s not even hence it’s very easy. But anyway we’ve gone off top. It. We’ve gone off topic.

17:53.10
Kim Lokenberg
And the wrong side you mean or where no we’re on the right side.

18:04.58
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, no, no so no, but it it actually um for me even even with studying if I say something out loud to myself then it’s real it. It might sound really crazy. But for me, it absolutely works. So if I would study languages and my mom always taught me like if you.

18:08.78
katrinamcollier
Yeah, no.

18:22.29
Kim Lokenberg
Hold your 3 fingers together and then you say it out loud then it stux in your brain. It’s how your brain sides work. Let’s just let’s those fingers and then focus and then no you can you can hold them anyway. But.

18:24.99
katrinamcollier
Um, how how I need to know how to do that because genuine I am trying to learn French and I just don’t ah just those fingers.

18:35.81
katrinamcollier
Have to hold them up like that or can I hold them anywhere.

18:41.64
Kim Lokenberg
No, it makes ah ah, another connection between your left and right brain.

18:43.39
katrinamcollier
Oh my God That’s amazing I’m trying to learn French and I’m just hopeless at it I should be learning something useful like that in more countries like spish or something. But yeah anyway I’m going to do that. So interesting thing that you talk about this because I think and.

18:54.11
Kim Lokenberg
French is yeah.

19:02.38
katrinamcollier
I rant about this quite a lot that people are getting misdiagnosed because they’re admitting. They have a rich internal dialogue I’ve never once thought anything of my rich internal dialogue. In fact I was just shocked to hear because some people don’t have 1 and actually I just love the fact you went in and you were having a conversation with yourself.

19:19.47
Kim Lokenberg
Um, well I Never yeah and I’ve never been saying to me like your your your your Sh or you’re not doing well. Ah yeah I can get really mad at myself if something doesn’t work out how I want it to work out.

19:20.70
katrinamcollier
As long as the conversation’s not destructive I think it’s quite normal. It’s why we yeah.

19:29.67
katrinamcollier
And.

19:36.52
Kim Lokenberg
But that’s just who I am um.

19:36.87
katrinamcollier
Um, but don’t you go into the so why didn’t it work out. Don’t you then start going through the analyzing it. Oh.

19:41.22
Kim Lokenberg
Oh yeah, because I’m like oh yeah because I should have started earlier and but yeah, okay, this is how how my how I work so that’s yeah I’ll I’ll figure it out and then it works out and the end because but hey why don’t I start earlier. So for me.

19:48.51
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

19:55.12
katrinamcollier
Yeah, that’s that interesting Dialogue isn’t it. Yeah.

19:58.64
Kim Lokenberg
For me I would never discuss that with a therapist I guess because for me, it’s just normal.

20:04.57
katrinamcollier
No, and just I’ve just exactly but there are a lot of people who seem to be like because you have a rich internal dialogue Your adhg here’s a pill and I’m just like I have a really rich internal dialogue anyone listening to the podcast knows this I have entire conversations in my head. But.

20:18.37
Kim Lokenberg
Well maybe but but but on the other hand. Um, so for me, it’s just so normal that I would never have brought it up through therapy. So maybe that people were diagnosed.

20:26.28
katrinamcollier
Good point.

20:32.80
Kim Lokenberg
That for them is a scary thing for me. It’s just something I do um, it’s funny though that you mentioned it but it’s also depending on.

20:33.63
katrinamcollier
No I Love it because I would then go there So So I would go from what you were saying before I would then go into the hole. So Why is it I Always do everything last minute I mean I was quite regimented as a child has it got anything to do with that or I would literally just start having this. Very curious, kind conversation. It wasn’t kind in the past that’s the joy of the work I’ve done but that why am I like that. That’s really interesting and just keep drilling I Edit strange instant. Yeah it I mean let’s suck. That’s.

21:04.30
Kim Lokenberg
I’m working on different aspects at the moment so that that but no, so for instance, um, the funny thing is so so I I’m now having my second burnout I had a burnout 2009 and um I was at at the hospital for checkup.

21:11.27
katrinamcollier
And I mean.

21:15.49
katrinamcollier
And. And.

21:21.64
Kim Lokenberg
Which now I have every two years but I normally I go back every year to check up on the late effects of chemotherapy but I was sitting and this was a different doctor than I normally have and I was like yeah I’m so pised off like how do I get a burnout I mean and everybody’s like.

21:32.58
katrinamcollier
Okay.

21:41.47
Kim Lokenberg
You a burnout I cannot imagine and she said like she started laughing and I was like why are you laughing? This is absolutely not funny. It’s like you do know that 75% of children who were diagnosed with cancer between the ages of 0 and 4 got burned out. Like what I said the reason being because you were taught in your basis to go over your boundaries all the time to survive so you’re constantly in survival mode since I know that.

22:01.74
katrinamcollier
So.

22:10.42
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:17.76
Kim Lokenberg
You will now think like how the hell did you get up in a new burnout. But no, that’s because I I’m yes exactly I listen I didn’t listen to I didn’t listen to myself. No so so I was so programmed to to not listen to my inner voice.

22:22.70
katrinamcollier
Oh no because you didn’t learn at the first burnout. So the universe is giving you a second burnout. No. No oh believe me, you can have as many as you like there’s no judgment here. Well, but no, but in the the first time you had the burnout. You didn’t learn the lesson which is no criticism of you whatsoever so was boundary setting. Um.

22:37.52
Kim Lokenberg
But but no buts. No, but also what I didn’t learn I learned enough I learned well the boundary setting I learned quite a bit but it goes into the background gradually. But Also at that point I.

22:53.67
katrinamcollier
And yeah, yeah.

22:59.93
Kim Lokenberg
Fought to get better. So I would be able to work which is a different um schematic than what I’m doing now now I’m getting better to feel better and to choose what I want to do with my life.

23:02.50
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, ah yes.

23:12.23
katrinamcollier
Yeah, ah a Christmas months ah that’s so different. Yes I got better for work as opposed to I’m getting better because I want to feel better.

23:18.38
Kim Lokenberg
So it’s a different getting better. It’s so different. It feels different as well. But.

23:26.62
Kim Lokenberg
For me? Yeah, but that’s such a it’s it’s it. It seems small but it’s It’s a huge mindset so it was always about to fail.

23:31.18
katrinamcollier
Wow. I’ve got goosebumps so different here. Huge It’s huge because if you’re getting better for Work. You will never set your boundaries fully because you’ll be like well it’s it’s not impacting work so I can let that boundary slip. But when it’s impacting work and I’m not letting that boundary slip. But when it’s for your life and what you want to do and how you want you will Those boundaries will be Firm. Oh.

23:47.58
Kim Lokenberg
Exactly exactly.

23:56.18
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, so now it was a whole situation so we had Covid my dad my dad was diagnosed you know, but now it’s like my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer Very aggressive form I was working abroad. My brothers didn’t want to help out.

24:02.63
katrinamcollier
Ah, sorry I’m so excited for you I’m like balancing I done. Yeah.

24:15.24
Kim Lokenberg
That much so I had to do everything at least that’s how I felt plus my work. Plus oh I have a family to run oh and someone else’s family to run like actually as well. So with work I was I came back from a but w and as like the next six months I’m taking it easy because I feel i’m.

24:19.69
katrinamcollier
Um.

24:25.37
katrinamcollier
Oh.

24:35.48
Kim Lokenberg
Slipping up never thought my body never thought of the none work related stress.

24:43.40
katrinamcollier
Ah, which is enormous and there was no. There were no boundaries in place. There was no respect coming towards you you know your brothers weren’t strapping up all that’s like Boundarylip Boundary Boundary it’s and as a child you’d been taught to.

24:55.29
Kim Lokenberg
Exactly um and because it was.

25:00.18
katrinamcollier
Be a girl which usually means people please which means help everybody which means your priorities go out the window and we can’t work like that we burn out. Ah so oh I’m so glad you’ve got this time now to fix it and it’s so much fun setting boundaries with people.

25:07.25
Kim Lokenberg
Exactly exactly. Yeah, and also because my mind might yeah, no, But what I what I What I messaged you earlier as well is that for everyone who is doubtful about Therapy or what of just try different things which which.

25:18.84
katrinamcollier
But just love it. Don’t they ah.

25:22.18
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

25:30.61
katrinamcollier
Um.

25:33.11
Kim Lokenberg
You feel happy with I mean I my mom being a therapist. You don’t want to know how many therapies I’ve tried I did ari healing I did with brushes ah well never white or healing. Yeah when I was 11

25:39.30
katrinamcollier
Ah.

25:45.44
katrinamcollier
Was that aura healing your aura. Ah fantastic. Yeah, but you know I was saying white light is the same thing isn’t it clear Aura ah.

25:51.12
Kim Lokenberg
I Started really young with that kind of stuff but exactly no, but it’s it’s it’s so if if if people hear Emd R Then they always think of the the the beeps and I’m like the beeps I’ve never had it with beeps side up.

26:01.21
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

26:06.48
katrinamcollier
I Thought it was eye movement. Oh.

26:10.52
Kim Lokenberg
Yes, so there’s so many different and I was with the lady and she was um, amazing and then she’s she stopped because it was too heavy because she was doing actually more than just the tapping and then I could stay it was like yeah ah because I only went to her every year

26:20.73
katrinamcollier
Hi Oh sorry, are you talking this fun. Oh okay because that’s a if chain isn’t it I Love that if T’s amazing.

26:28.17
Kim Lokenberg
No no on the knees she did on the knees but she but yeah, no, but she was she would definitely take all the tension out of your body she would drag it out of you. It was so intense and we love working with each other.

26:42.70
katrinamcollier
And she was and she wasn’t letting go of it sounds like she was keeping it. Um, yeah.

26:46.30
Kim Lokenberg
Well, she was really good. But when you’re when you’ve done it for 30 years you’re you’re done you’re done so now she.

26:55.13
katrinamcollier
And I wonder if she wasn’t energetically because I say this to my chiropratch a lot when he’s like touch. Do you energetically protect with all these people that you touch she was taking the energy out of you were Sheila releasing it I wonder but yeah thirty thirty is is a while.

27:03.60
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, absolutely, that’s that’s why Um, that’s why I That’s why I why I don’t treat people anymore. So I can do well the basic treatment. My mom does I could do exactly the same I used to do it when I was younger and I would get.

27:14.92
katrinamcollier
Yeah, yeah.

27:20.74
katrinamcollier
What was she doing. What’s your mom do? Yeah yeah, what you need.

27:21.34
Kim Lokenberg
So sick I would have headaches and ah oh so she she does body work so well she because she did so many different kind of things she has her own therapy. So it’s it could be have no therapy. It’s just what your bodydy’s asking for so it starts it starts at she started with touch for help.

27:38.56
katrinamcollier
Yeah.

27:40.76
Kim Lokenberg
So it’s accurate pressure. It’s your body actually answers the questions. So when someone has a headache and no yeah, no, but especially with me being high sensitive. It’s It’s not smart to do.

27:43.34
katrinamcollier
Yeah, so that’s why if you’re doing that. Oh sorry I Just mean to interrupt again if you’re doing that and you’re touching people. No wonder that you found a bit much. Yeah, but.

28:00.75
Kim Lokenberg
But I would even if I do want to help out like 1 of the boys or something I would wash my hands up to over my elbows otherwise I’m getting like freaky.

28:01.24
katrinamcollier
No, ah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I don’t want your stuff. Thank you very much. But I think I also love the the message that you’ve given. Which we’ve had a few times through this which is good that keep trying like you know I’ve written out 12 years of completely different things that I’ve done. It’s like I think sometimes people go to one coach or 1 therapist and they think well that’s I know it’s like but you might plateau or it mightn’t be right or they’re not getting through like.

28:33.68
Kim Lokenberg
Um, yeah I’m I’m working with.

28:38.61
katrinamcollier
Your defenses or whatever. Yeah, there might be a reason that.

28:40.96
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, so so when I had my first burnout and it was I was I was in a real bad place I weighed 40 kilos ah, not even I think 45 yeah 45 so so they said like you need to go through therapist today. Otherwise we will admit you something was like nothing going on.

28:48.41
katrinamcollier
Um.

28:54.12
katrinamcollier
And like us.

28:58.37
Kim Lokenberg
So I went to see ah psychologist and after the third session I was like dude what are we doing here. Look you make money like water and I’m telling you the story I’ve been telling for the past thirty one years forty one years after say getting bit.

29:14.37
katrinamcollier
Um.

29:17.77
Kim Lokenberg
I’m like you’re not helping me and I’m not helping you Yeah okay money wise sounds like this is not working and then I changed to ah to no autonomy which is more buddy and mind work which for me works not necessarily for everyone. But.

29:17.88
katrinamcollier
Next? yeah.

29:26.70
katrinamcollier
Yeah, exactly.

29:35.34
Kim Lokenberg
So I change it and now I’m working with a guy here in my village which is a minute walk which is no pressure. So oh I have to go through Therapy I have to go by cart and I’m working with a psychologist for ah the stress in my brain.

29:40.51
katrinamcollier
Yeah, awesome. Um.

29:49.23
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah, yeah, amazing.

29:54.54
Kim Lokenberg
So it’s on two sides and it’s it’s almost the same kind of training I’m doing but 1 is for my body to heal and the one is for my brain to get more easy going on myself and to have less stress.

30:01.10
katrinamcollier
Yeah. Button. Yeah, yeah, that’s perfect. Yeah I know.

30:11.48
Kim Lokenberg
My brain so that I can function better, but it’s it’s It’s so nice to have and I don’t have to go there. We do digitally which is like why? yeah I used to work remote anyway. So why would I have to wait and a year and a half for a diagnosis if I can do it. Oh.

30:28.83
katrinamcollier
I know it is amazing though. Like you know I used to go and see Michelle like Michelle Zollie was my first and and I went to which is you know when I look at some of the stuff we did which is good but it can be done remotely. There’s no reason.

30:30.26
Kim Lokenberg
Video.

30:35.37
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah.

30:44.90
Kim Lokenberg
Well yeah, you know and again and again it’s depending on who you are and what you want get out of it I am used so I did 15 conferences in in 2 years of covid I did. Ah.

30:45.69
katrinamcollier
That it can’t be and it’s just it’s opened up such accessibility now exactly. So.

30:58.26
katrinamcollier
We used what? yeah yeah.

31:01.46
Kim Lokenberg
A year of training with you where with all these things we needed to open up ourselves so for so some people it’s like it’s digital I can I fully understand that’s not everybody’s cup of tea. But for me, it’s actually kind of safe.

31:16.51
katrinamcollier
Um, yeah I actually think I’m wondering if the introverted hsp is really like it because actually we don’t have to go through the stress of getting somewhere and then when we’re all open and vulnerable.

31:20.31
Kim Lokenberg
If you get my point.

31:28.51
Kim Lokenberg
Or yeah and and exactly exactly well and I and I can see how I want to sit so now I’m actually my knee is right under. So my knees like right here.

31:31.68
katrinamcollier
We don’t have to go home on the train which is what I used to have to do and sometimes I’d be like still crying which is fine but it’s.

31:46.41
katrinamcollier
Ah yep I Come to know? yeah.

31:47.85
Kim Lokenberg
So it’s and it’s in your home where you’re safe and especially with with ah the psychologist about the ass where it’s It’s kind of scared to learn something new about yourself. Even though if it’s autism or ah clairvoyant or.

32:00.95
katrinamcollier
Um, um.

32:03.31
katrinamcollier
So clear audience. Yeah, let’s getting the understanding.

32:06.27
Kim Lokenberg
Whatever name it is but I’m learning about myself and um, but it’s it’s it’s funny that because what you’re saying is absolutely true because you’re you’re shown yourself So you’re completely open if I would go out right after my therapy.

32:20.40
katrinamcollier
Yeah, um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:24.90
Kim Lokenberg
To go shopping here in the village even I’m like why so I’m not doing that because all the tension from other people and I can see like oh he’s pissed off. Oh no, don’t want to meet them and so I’m taking a few hours just to sit in my house or go for a walk with the dog.

32:33.95
katrinamcollier
Yeah, exactly yeah, that’s that yeah, you’ve just described.

32:43.65
Kim Lokenberg
And then it then it embeddeds in your body more that I mean my therapies needs to embed and then it works so take a few hours

32:53.79
katrinamcollier
You just described a H just piece so beautifully which is we can literally see almost like the vibration of other people like you can see whose whose mood they’re in. It’s quite amazing. Um, if because we’re at time how fast go. It’s like what.

33:03.13
Kim Lokenberg
Um, yeah.

33:10.12
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, we always run out of time. Ah.

33:13.60
katrinamcollier
If people want to get in contact with you to hear more to discuss more where would you prefer I sent people to Linkedin yeah I love your email so cool.

33:21.65
Kim Lokenberg
Um, pool linkedin is fine. They can also email me at Kim at the lockembbergs.com

33:31.34
Kim Lokenberg
And and still with my tattoo matching to 2 Yeah, okay, yeah, thank you, thank you.

33:32.49
katrinamcollier
Love your company name to be fair. Ah, that’s so good isn’t it. Thank you for that. That was absolutely amazing I Just I yeah to me I Know your you say you’re in Burnout but you actually seem so much more Centered. So I think you’re just. Heading in the most incredible path. Yeah, it’s a process. It’s a process I would still. Yeah I mean I’ve had a twelveur of view process and I definitely have got to that self mastery point but I still have stuff bubble up I still have things pop up in my.

33:51.71
Kim Lokenberg
Yeah, yeah, no yeah, yeah, no I’m I’m getting there but it’s ah we still have a long way to go but I’m feeling a lot better process. Yeah, my mom My mom’s still in process.

34:07.65
Kim Lokenberg
Exactly exactly Thank you.

34:10.32
katrinamcollier
But you learn to deal with them quicker and that’s the joy. So anyway, thank you again.